Show me your proof

[Baalzebutt]

Funny though. I always got the impression GC was female.

You're thinking of Destiny's Child.

You mean Boyoncé?

[ThomM]

God promises eternal life, with a forgiveness of sin, yep... a life cleansed from a deadly disease, sin. He gives all people a choice, if you choose hell He will give you a place there, if you choose heaven He will give you a place there. Why would you argue with that, you choose and He gives, He forces you into nothing, you are able to exercise free will.
You need to lighten up some, it's you that's reading into my post something that makes you mad. When I preach it's about salvation to those who are interested, now with that said could I have possibly had any intention of preaching to you.

Now all we need is evidence to support your assertions and we can finally get this debate off the ground.


By the way, what if your choice in life is "none of the above"? Is that just a euphemism for "hell"?

THere is another problem with that

Choice!

IF a god is all knowing - choice does not actually exist. THe only possible outcome of every circumstance is what the god already knows. It would NOT be possible to CHOOSE something else. ANd since humans are finite characters - the idea that a god would KNOW a choice of its creation (a person) before we existed - implies we were created to fulfill that - not to have a "free" choice.

At the same time - since the god created EVERYTHING - and saw it was "good" - and NO other being with the power of creation exists - then sin cannot exist - since it was created by god - and it is GOOD.

[fr0d0]

THere is another problem with that

Choice!

This only works if people are, like God, able to see the future.

[Esquilax]

THere is another problem with that

Choice!

This only works if people are, like God, able to see the future.

I actually sort of agree. Sort of.

I don't believe in free will as a useful concept; every one of my actions might be predictable via my neurochemistry and personality, but since I nor anyone else has the ability to do so at a high enough degree of accuracy, the idea that I might not have free will because of this is pretty meaningless. I'll continue to make my choices, and they'll continue to be new to me.

[radorth]

Omnipotence is impossible due to paradoxes

Another way to disprove the almighty god is that omnipotence leads to paradoxes. Can god make a rock that is too heavy for him to carry? Can god build a wall that even he can't tear down?

Also, if god knows everything, he knows what he will do in the "future" (in any dimension, not necessary the time dimension). He must have known that from the very start of his own existence. Thus god's actions are predestined. God is tied by faith, he has no free will.

Yada yada yada. So goes the same black or white semi-thoughtful rationale fundy Christians and fundy atheists use in about equal measure.

God does not have to be 100% omniscient or 100% omnipotent to create anything. Maybe he is just one million times more powerful than a human. He's still God to that human. The Biblical God is chagrined about the amount of evil on the earth, so he is clearly not 100% omniscient. Who decided that he was 100% omniscient or even wanted to be? You? That's just an assumption atheists and Christians both make, then argue about as if it were a fact. Omnipotent

Who decides what qualifies as "omnipotent" or "all knowing"? You? If so, why you?

[Esquilax]

Yada yada yada. So goes the same black or white semi-thoughtful rationale fundy Christians and fundy atheists use in about equal measure.

God does not have to be 100% omniscient or 100% omnipotent to create anything. Maybe he is just one million times more powerful than a human. He's still God to that human. The Biblical God is chagrined about the amount of evil on the earth, so he is clearly not 100% omniscient. Who decided that he was 100% omniscient or even wanted to be? You? That's just an assumption atheists and Christians both make, then argue about as if it were a fact. Omnipotent

Who decides what qualifies as "omnipotent" or "all knowing"? You? If so, why you?

The problem you encounter, using this line of logic, is that it's nobody's fault that Luckie came up with this conclusion but the religion itself. Like it or not, there's no "standard" christianity, each and every believer seems to see it a little differently, and oddly, they all think they're right.

You seem to put more stock in your interpretation than in the outlooks of millions of other christians, yet you've failed to provide a reason why. You've scoffed at Luckie's interpretation, but given no enticement for us to take yours any more seriously. Why should we just assume that you're right and she's wrong?

Christianity made this bed with all this talk of metaphors, and personal revelation, and yet it steadfastly refuses to lie in it. You all just keep trundling on as though everyone else is the idiot for not blindly following your interpretation of your facsimile holy book. It's weird.

[archangle]

Omnipotence is impossible due to paradoxes

Another way to disprove the almighty god is that omnipotence leads to paradoxes. Can god make a rock that is too heavy for him to carry? Can god build a wall that even he can't tear down?

Also, if god knows everything, he knows what he will do in the "future" (in any dimension, not necessary the time dimension). He must have known that from the very start of his own existence. Thus god's actions are predestined. God is tied by faith, he has no free will.

Yada yada yada. So goes the same black or white semi-thoughtful rationale fundy Christians and fundy atheists use in about equal measure.

God does not have to be 100% omniscient or 100% omnipotent to create anything. Maybe he is just one million times more powerful than a human. He's still God to that human. The Biblical God is chagrined about the amount of evil on the earth, so he is clearly not 100% omniscient. Who decided that he was 100% omniscient or even wanted to be? You? That's just an assumption atheists and Christians both make, then argue about as if it were a fact. Omnipotent

Who decides what qualifies as "omnipotent" or "all knowing"? You? If so, why you?

lmao, you have a point. But that doesn't sit well here. We will accuse you of things we are. "your enemy is "you" applies. I don't have to believe in Jesus to see the truth of that.

[Mystical]

Aw did we scare off Mr Dew?
*sad face

Who decides what qualifies as "omnipotent" or "all knowing"? You? If so, why you?

Well, the Bible actually.

Psalms 139:1-6
O Lord, you have searched me and known me!
You know when I sit down and when I rise up;
you discern my thoughts from afar.
You search out my path and my lying down
and are acquainted with all my ways.
Even before a word is on my tongue,
behold, O Lord, you know it altogether.
You hem me in, behind and before,
and lay your hand upon me.
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
it is high; I cannot attain it.

God does not commit injustice. Therefore he is all just.
Deuteronomy 32:4 The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.

Not only is god perfect, but the word of God proves true (even though it doesn't)
Psalm 18:30 This God—his way is perfect; the word of the Lord proves true; he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him.

All of us fall short of Gods' honor.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Self explanatory
Matthew 5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

God knows all possible routes one can take, and asserts that he knows which path is right.
Psalms 1:6 - For the LORD knows the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

God's knowledge, interpretation, and perception are beyond measure. His power is beyond plentiful supply.
Psalm 147:5 Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure.

God knows the status of our internal motivations
1 Sam. 16:7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

God can do all things, God's knowledge is perfect.
Job 42:2 “I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
Job 37:16 "Do you know the balancing[s] of the clouds, the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge

God knows everything we can think.
1 Chronicles 28:9 “And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind, for the Lord searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever.

The word of God is alive. Apparently there's a difference between a soul and spirit. And we're all naked in his eyes.
Heb. 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

God knows the past, present, and future.
Isa. 41:21-24
Set forth your case, says the Lord;
bring your proofs, says the King of Jacob.
Let them bring them, and tell us what is to happen.
Tell us the former things, what they are,
that we may consider them,
that we may know their outcome;
or declare to us the things to come.
Tell us what is to come hereafter,
that we may know that you are gods;
do good, or do harm,
that we may be dismayed and terrified.[a]
Behold, you are nothing,
and your work is less than nothing;
an abomination is he who chooses you.

Isa. 42:9
Behold, the former things have come to pass,
and new things I now declare;
before they spring forth
I tell you of them.”

Isa. 44:7
Who is like me? Let him proclaim it.[a]
Let him declare and set it before me,
since I appointed an ancient people.
Let them declare what is to come, and what will happen.

God even knows what people would have done if their circumstances had been different.
Matt. 11:21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

[fr0d0]

Somebody ban missluckie26 - she's preaching!

[Mystical]