A challenge about women and marriage in Islam

[Dragonetti]

What a brained washed stereotype you are

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How can we do that?
Are you going to punish children for having sex (so they are not children anymore)
Sexually abuse a child can be punished by death
Islam allows marriage not abuse, what is the exact harm done on a girl if a judge, doctor, herself & her parents accepted the marriage!!!

You are contradicting yourself here, you want to punish her as an adult but prevent her from having sex because she is a child!

I think there's some language barrier here, when did I state I wanted to punish a 9 year old as an adult?

As I said before it doesn't matter whether Islam allows abuse, were talking about a marriage system based on the laws of Islam which makes it legal for an adult to marry a 9 year old this HAS resulted in wide spread child abuse in countries where these laws are in place, not theoretically, there's no saying this might happen, it IS happening.

Correct, and with dowry... This is called human trafficking.

[Muslim Scholar]

Correct, and with dowry... This is called human trafficking.

Most men buy a diamond ring for their prides, it is the same
Usually it is gold for mid classes and Diamonds for Upper ones.

[Cato]

Correct, and with dowry... This is called human trafficking.

Most men buy a diamond ring for their prides, it is the same
Usually it is gold for mid classes and Diamonds for Upper ones.

MS, you really need to look up the definition of dowry.

[Muslim Scholar]

I think there's some language barrier here, when did I state I wanted to punish a 9 year old as an adult?

When you said you want to ban marriage (and sex)
Are you going to place a punishment or just make it as an advice?

As I said before it doesn't matter whether Islam allows abuse, were talking about a marriage system based on the laws of Islam which makes it legal for an adult to marry a 9 year old this HAS resulted in wide spread child abuse in countries where these laws are in place, not theoretically, there's no saying this might happen, it IS happening.

This is because Islam is not applied properly
The dowry (marriage money) should go to the girl not to her father
A judge and doctor should give permission
The Girl must agree
The man should be suitable to marry the girl
If all rules applied the Islamic system is much better than any other

I showed you the videos of what happens in Islamic countries,

There is no proper Islamic country in the world now.

Why don't you show me videos in the UK of these horny 9 year olds you speak of, protesting that they want to be able to marry a grown man, where are all these 9 year olds insisting that they want the age of consent lowering? Why haven't they banded together and contacted parliament and got a petition going themselves?

You can search any statistics about sex at young age in any western country
The age difference is a matter of choice and cannot be regulated

[Cato]

Why don't you show me videos in the UK of these horny 9 year olds you speak of, protesting that they want to be able to marry a grown man, where are all these 9 year olds insisting that they want the age of consent lowering? Why haven't they banded together and contacted parliament and got a petition going themselves?

You can search any statistics about sex at young age in any western country
The age difference is a matter of choice and cannot be regulated

With the exception of Catholic priests, nobody is running around fucking nine year olds.

Give me just one example of a 'Western' infidel marrying off his nine year old to a middle-aged religious dude with a beard. Just one. That's all I ask.

[Dragonetti]

I think there's some language barrier here, when did I state I wanted to punish a 9 year old as an adult?

When you said you want to ban marriage (and sex)
Are you going to place a punishment or just make it as an advice?

As I said before it doesn't matter whether Islam allows abuse, were talking about a marriage system based on the laws of Islam which makes it legal for an adult to marry a 9 year old this HAS resulted in wide spread child abuse in countries where these laws are in place, not theoretically, there's no saying this might happen, it IS happening.

This is because Islam is not applied properly
The dowry (marriage money) should go to the girl not to her father
A judge and doctor should give permission
The Girl must agree
The man should be suitable to marry the girl
If all rules applied the Islamic system is much better than any other

I showed you the videos of what happens in Islamic countries,

There is no proper Islamic country in the world now.

Why don't you show me videos in the UK of these horny 9 year olds you speak of, protesting that they want to be able to marry a grown man, where are all these 9 year olds insisting that they want the age of consent lowering? Why haven't they banded together and contacted parliament and got a petition going themselves?

You can search any statistics about sex at young age in any western country
The age difference is a matter of choice and cannot be regulated

And the child, who can barely make life changing decisions, agrees with the parents! I bet, if the child does not agree, she will be punished for not following her parents. Honor killings do not occur.

And, dowry is usually paid to the father. Plenty of marriages in the US occur without this diamond ring you speak of.

There are plenty of proper Muslim Countries: Iran, Saudi, Qatar, and Dubai.

[Zen Badger]

This is because Islam is not applied properly
The dowry (marriage money) should go to the girl not to her father
A judge and doctor should give permission
The Girl must agree
The man should be suitable to marry the girl

And where in the quran does it state this?

If all rules applied the Islamic system is much better than any other

Yet the more fundamental a Muslim state is the more repressive and intolerant it is.

[paulpablo]

Ok just to make this simple.

My argument with a basis in reality.

The reality is that in countries with this islamic law in place where an old man can marry a 9 year old girl what does happen and is happening is girls are being pulled out of education, beaten, dying of childbirth because they are becoming pregnant at too much of a young age and being forced into marriage because guess what? A lot of 9 year olds don't have the wisdom, or some would say slyness, that adults have and there are a lot of sly perverted adults out there willing to take advantage of that.

What would be better than the Islamic law when applied in reality? The western law, it is better that's why females are better educated here in the western world than in afganistan or algeria, pakistan, india, women aren't allowed to be beaten, and they aren't taken out of education at an early age to get married and pregnant.


Now I'll narrow the argument down to just the fundamental things wrong with the islamic law even if everyone did follow it perfectly and not abuse women or children (even though the quran does allow men to beat their wives if they fear their arrogance which I do consider to be abuse)

Judges and doctors get things wrong lots of times why do they get to decide when a girl is mature?

A girl may feel pressured by her parents into getting married and do it just for there sake, at 9 years old it is much much more likely they she will be more impressionable than someone who has reached there teens at least, she may just agree to this under pressure.

Men shouldn't be able to beat women based on their assumptions that they suspect their wives are being rebellious or they feel fear of their wives arrogance.

The education of a married 9 year old is surely going to be compromised by the very likely scenario that she may become pregnant.

I don't have to come up with an entirely alternative system I just want a system that deducts these things from it, and therefore will not be the Islamic system.

[KichigaiNeko]

So to summarise MS...

islam is a religion that makes certain it's males are stupid arrogant children and they stay that way?

[Muslim Scholar]

What would be better than the Islamic law when applied in reality? The western law

Remember that in California they are applying the same rules as Islam
A 9 years old girl can marry a 100 years old man as well.

Now I'll narrow the argument down to just the fundamental things wrong with the islamic law even if everyone did follow it perfectly and not abuse women or children (even though the quran does allow men to beat their wives if they fear their arrogance which I do consider to be abuse)

Judges and doctors get things wrong lots of times why do they get to decide when a girl is mature?

A girl may feel pressured by her parents into getting married and do it just for there sake, at 9 years old it is much much more likely they she will be more impressionable than someone who has reached there teens at least, she may just agree to this under pressure.

let's put some examples
Jennifer which is a 12 years old girl, wanted sex, in USA she will get laid with another boy and may get pregnant, abortion, abused, etc.
The law will not help her at all (except in some states that they will allow her to marry that boy (if she is pregnant), the boy most likely is not responsible nor can support a family)

Under Islam Jennifer will talk with her parents, they will probably make an arranged marriage with somebody they feel suitable for her, even if he is young they (and his parents) will support the marriage till they grew up and decide for themselves.

Men shouldn't be able to beat women based on their assumptions that they suspect their wives are being rebellious or they feel fear of their wives arrogance.

Beating wives happens anyway in many western countries, under Islam it is restricted to be not hard and not on face, it helps a lot in many cases, anyway (as any western country) she has the right of divorce if she doesn't like it too much.

I don't have to come up with an entirely alternative system I just want a system that deducts these things from it, and therefore will not be the Islamic system.

See the example above