Me and the Military

[Autumnlicious]

You may have a bone to pick and legitimate criticism about the military. Fine. Give that. But leave the mindless baying behind.

I was taking the piss.It was not my intention to give offence. Having served in the military,I have some idea what it's like. I have only pity and/or contempt for those who choose it as a career. You don't like my view,tough.
I am not remotely interested in meeting your expectations or complying with your values. If you post something on a forum it's fair game.I will post what I want when I want,within forum rules.
Get over yourself

No one has the right not to be offended" (John Cleese)

Can't help but take this further. You have the right to speak your mind. You have the right to spread whatever you believe as much as you want. You have the fullest right to badmouth organizations without background or criticism. You also have the right to jump off of a bridge. And I have the right to call you out on it - whether /you/ want it or not. And you have the right to bitch and moan about me calling you out. Excellent.

Opinion is an amazing thing. Shame that so many people waste it on raw emotion instead of using that brain to expound, explain and convince. Oh well. Personally, I was upset most by your plain spoken outrage against the military without even elaborating on it. A bit like walking into... some kind of commons... or perhaps even a forum and then screaming. Don't be surprised that someone reacts.

Oh yeah, on your individualistic statement of "I am not remotely interested in meeting your expectations or complying with your values." I agree. I understand where your coming from. I quote Alexi Laiho:
"I don't give a flying fuck motherfucker!"

[Violet]

Well, we elaborated on it earlier in the thread padriac is speaking from the scaffold that we brought ourselves up to in previous pages

[Eilonnwy]

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I am leaning towards joining the military when I leave highschool at sometime. I was reading about the military and the process of joining until I came across the oath of enlistment:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

My problem is, I really do not want to say "so help me God". I feel that it is a disgrace to me as an atheist. I don't believe in God, nor any of the other ones, and I don't need help from any of them. And also, "that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same." The same what? What am I bearing that terrible word to? Faith... I don't like the sound of it.

Thinking that I will have to say this gives me that wierd feeling inside, a feeling of insecurity or something. ;\\ Sadness.

What shall/can I do?

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I'm developing this trend of jumping in late, but you all talk so damn much. Jerks.

Anyway, unfortunately and with complete disregard to the constitution, the military is very religious. Many atheists do serve, there are a few foxhole atheist organizations, but it's not easy. Long story short, if you plan to join the military, you're going to find yourself nodding and smiling your way through and probably attending some church services. While atheists don't face expulsion like gays, it's still an overly religious atmosphere. If you can deal with that, then more power too you. But if you're going to feel anxiety over the oath right from the start, you need to really think about what you're getting yourself into because that will be the least of your problems when you enter.

And I'm not trying to disparage our troops, my sister is in the naval reserve and for the most part, our military has good people. I'm just saying it's not the most friendly place for gays, atheists, and well women. Women have to really prepare themselves for it too, no matter how toughened they are and how equalizing the military tries to be.

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I am still waiting for (the Talk) concerning your beliefs. Let me know and I will listen. You know I support you in life as long as it doesn't clearly lead to self destruction.

And does atheism lead to self destruction?

I'm constantly thankful I have loving and caring parents who have accepted my atheism and understand that I will never believe. I don't try to convert them and they don't try to convert me.

I admire your willingness to talk with your son and I hope you can do so with an open mind.

[chatpilot]

My family does not accept my atheism, they just bear it. I have been called the crazy one in the family for being the only atheists in my entire family. If anything goes wrong in my life it is immediately attributed to "because I don't believe in God". According to my family once I give my life back to their lord and seek his forgiveness and help he will improve my life and make all things work out for me for the better.

Good point E on the religious service attendance. I did not go to religious services although at the time I was a theist, honestly because there was not enough time. Between training during the week and letting off some steam on the weekends at the local bars and strip clubs God was the last thing on my mind. But when I was in boot camp they did force us to attend a service or two.

[littlegrimlin1]

Thank you guise. I think he meant "self-destruction" in the demented and twisted mind sort of way. I don't think I'm anywhere near that, however, corruption cannot see corruption. nah, but I think I'm fine.

[Violet]

Thank you guise. I think he meant "self-destruction" in the demented and twisted mind sort of way. I don't think I'm anywhere near that, however, corruption cannot see corruption. nah, but I think I'm fine.

What sort of way is that?

I disagree to the point that corruption cannot see corruption... how could it be corrupt if it didn't know full well what it was doing?

Or are you meaning that the 'corrupt' person doesn't think they are doing something corrupt? That might be tenable But then how would they be corrupt in the first place...? As far as I am aware... corruption implies willingness... which implies that the person was aware and can be held accountable for their actions.

[Autumnlicious]

Thank you guise. I think he meant "self-destruction" in the demented and twisted mind sort of way. I don't think I'm anywhere near that, however, corruption cannot see corruption. nah, but I think I'm fine.

What sort of way is that?

I disagree to the point that corruption cannot see corruption... how could it be corrupt if it didn't know full well what it was doing?

Or are you meaning that the 'corrupt' person doesn't think they are doing something corrupt? That might be tenable But then how would they be corrupt in the first place...? As far as I am aware... corruption implies willingness... which implies that the person was aware and can be held accountable for their actions.

Grimlin thinks he means "self-destruction" as whatever-the-hell-I-want-it-to-mean. I think corruption easily sees corruption when the other is contrary or not in sync with the formers interests. It is human nature to ignore glaring issues in what you want while later harping and attacking perceived issues in another if it is sufficiently different from what you want. Selective vision at its finest.

Also explains a lot, for example, why many Christians make fun of Hare Krishnas and Scientologists as being "ridiculous" while believing in the many sundry surprises, leaps of illogic and silly creation myths of the Bible.

[littlegrimlin1]

I mean twisted and such as in becoming anarchist, evil, or anything else that may ruin my future success. I meant the way Sae said as corruption, if they didn't know that they were corrupted.