Men and Women equal? No, never.

[ideologue08]

Why do some people believe that men and women are equal to one another when that's clearly not the case? There can never be totally equal opportunities for the two genders because they aren't the same thing!

Consider this for a moment; a 5 month pregnant woman and a man both have the same credentials for a particular job, but the man gets it purely because he's a man and therefore not pregnant. This is the most logical business decision, what company would go through having to pay maternity leave to a woman that's not contributing a damn thing to the company for the next year? This is not the same as racism or homophobia because the colour of a person's skin does not affect on their performance whereas a pregnant woman is obviously affected psychologically, biologically and then eventually economically as well.

Another example; a firm wants to hire a security guard so they deliberately hire a man instead of a woman. I don't see how women should expect equality here.

There are countless examples but I'll end up with a controversial one. There was a spat between a male tennis player Giles Simon and a female tennis player Serena Williams with regards to the prize money given to the male tennis winner and the female tennis winner.

Men play far more than women and also pull in a higher television ratings, it makes sense for them to be paid more on average. But the ultra-feminists aren't happy with the facts so they pushed and pushed for equal pay. But equal pay for what? It doesn't make any financial sense.

In case I'm accused of sexism; women should in my opinion be able to discriminate against men freely in certain industries such as beauty, child education, fashion etc. Bottom line is; men and women aren't the same thing so why should "equal opportunities" exist? They aren't equal.

[The Grand Nudger]

You seem to think that having a penis or vagina respectively grants or strips one of some specific ability not directly related to either a penis or vagina.

The difference between a women 5 months pregnant and a man with the same credentials, from the businesses point of view - is not that one is a woman and one is a man - but that one of them is pregnant. If the male informed them that his career driven wife was giving birth in 4 months and he would be taking time off to care for the child...guess what.....

Why wouldn't they hire a female security guard? Why should the male even expect to be hired for this job?

You're advocating for -more- discrimination, as opposed to less?

(I don;t mind the idea of equal pay in pro sports btw, overpayed fucks)

[ideologue08]

You seem to think that having a penis or vagina respectively grants or strips one of some specific ability not directly related to either a penis or vagina.

The difference between a women 5 months pregnant and a man with the same credentials, from the businesses point of view - is not that one is a woman and one is a man - but that one of them is pregnant. If the male informed them that his career driven wife was giving birth in 4 months and he would be taking time off to care for the child...guess what.....

Why wouldn't they hire a female security guard? Why should the male even expect to be hired for this job?

You're advocating for -more- discrimination, as opposed to less?

(I don;t mind the idea of equal pay in pro sports btw, overpayed fucks)

Well you're wrong there, refusing a pregnant women is considered sexual and gender-based discrimination despite being the correct business decision.

They don't hire female security guards anywhere near as much as male guards in Europe and there is a reason for this discrimination. If you don't know the reason then I can't help you.

Yes, I think there should be some discrimination in certain areas, businesses shouldn't be forced to take men or women just because of their gender- which is real discrimination. To force a business to take a woman simply because she's a woman despite not being as valuable economically as the man is putting gender before credentials, am I wrong?

[Tiberius]

Why do some people believe that men and women are equal to one another when that's clearly not the case? There can never be totally equal opportunities for the two genders because they aren't the same thing!

I don't think anyone argues that men and women are totally 100% equal.

Consider this for a moment; a 5 month pregnant woman and a man both have the same credentials for a particular job, but the man gets it purely because he's a man and therefore not pregnant.

No...he got the job because he wasn't pregnant and was less likely to have to have a period of leave in the near future. Gender was a factor here, but it wasn't the only factor. The fact that you mentioned she was pregnant implies that had she not have been, she may have gotten the job. It wasn't her gender that cost her the job, it was her being pregnant.

Another example; a firm wants to hire a security guard so they deliberately hire a man instead of a woman. I don't see how women should expect equality here.

Clearly you haven't seen some of the women I've seen. Plus, have you heard of guns? Why do you assume it's all about physical strength here?

Men play far more than women and also pull in a higher television ratings, it makes sense for them to be paid more on average. But the ultra-feminists aren't happy with the facts so they pushed and pushed for equal pay. But equal pay for what? It doesn't make any financial sense.

This is actually a scenario I agree with you on, but again, it's not because of gender that I think it's unfair; it's because the female players do less than male players. There isn't a good reason why female players can't play for 5 sets, and if they play for less time, they should earn less money.

In case I'm accused of sexism; women should in my opinion be able to discriminate against men freely in certain industries such as beauty, child education, fashion etc. Bottom line is; men and women aren't the same thing so why should "equal opportunities" exist? They aren't equal.

I'm of the opinion that anyone should be able to discriminate against anyone they like. If I'm turned down for a job because I'm a man, I don't think I want to work for a company like that anyway. Anti-discrimination laws have good intentions, but they just don't work out in real life. Firstly, because why would some non-white person want to work for a white supremacist in the first place, but also because it's very hard to prove discrimination in the hiring process anyway.

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Well you're wrong there, refusing a pregnant women is considered sexual and gender-based discrimination despite being the correct business decision.

Keyword being "considered". Governments and law-makers rarely make the correct considerations. In the little place I live called reality, that isn't sexual / gender-based discrimination; it's good business thinking.

[The Grand Nudger]

Well you're wrong there, refusing a pregnant women is considered sexual and gender-based discrimination despite being the correct business decision.

Wrong relative to what, the way that yall's system is set up? Ours has separate headers for sex based discrimination and discrimination based upon pregnancy. Wrong relative to the impetus for why an employer might choose to discriminate anyway, and how uniform it would be if the roles here reversed.....you're the one that explained one reason that a business owner might choose to do so - I simply reminded you that it applied equally if the applicant was male and in a scenario with the same practical effect.

They don't hire female security guards anywhere near as much as male guards in Europe and there is a reason for this discrimination. If you don't know the reason then I can't help you.

You can't help me because you don't know the reason either...lol.

Yes, I think there should be some discrimination in certain areas, businesses shouldn't be forced to take men or women just because of their gender- which is real discrimination. To force a business to take a woman simply because she's a woman despite not being as valuable economically as the man is putting gender before credentials, am I wrong?

We don't have male-to -female quota laws - or sex based preferential hiring laws (in fact both would be against those very same anti-discrimination laws we do have), that feature heavily where you're at?

[cneron]

Equality never?

You cite isolated situations, such as a pregnant woman vs. a man---how about a non-pregnant woman vs. an alcoholic man? I know which I'd pick. You talk about a security guard position---how about a computer programmer? No equality there, either? Why should men be discriminated against as teachers? I know of no evidence that women are superior in this field. And in fashion? Many prestigious fashion designers are men.

"Equality" is an ideal, and it's hard to enforce an ideal effectively and fairly, but it's widely thought to be a worthwhile effort. In a lot of cases, women and men truly are equally qualified, despite cultural bias. For the sake of the ideal, some of us are willing to make allowances in certain situations, for pregnancy, say, or frequent trips to the bathroom because of an enlarged prostate.

[ideologue08]

No...he got the job because he wasn't pregnant and was less likely to have to have a period of leave in the near future. Gender was a factor here, but it wasn't the only factor. The fact that you mentioned she was pregnant implies that had she not have been, she may have gotten the job. It wasn't her gender that cost her the job, it was her being pregnant.

Clearly you haven't seen some of the women I've seen. Plus, have you heard of guns? Why do you assume it's all about physical strength here?

This is actually a scenario I agree with you on, but again, it's not because of gender that I think it's unfair; it's because the female players do less than male players. There isn't a good reason why female players can't play for 5 sets, and if they play for less time, they should earn less money.

I'm of the opinion that anyone should be able to discriminate against anyone they like. If I'm turned down for a job because I'm a man, I don't think I want to work for a company like that anyway. Anti-discrimination laws have good intentions, but they just don't work out in real life. Firstly, because why would some non-white person want to work for a white supremacist in the first place, but also because it's very hard to prove discrimination in the hiring process anyway.

Well, refusing a pregnant woman is considered sexual discrimination so I was referring to legislation and what society thinks about it in general, it is definitely considered sexual discrimination in Europe, which shouldn't be the case as you rightly pointed out Tiberius.

There are no guns here in Europe, just good ol' brute strength and stamina and physical deterrence. Although in America I guess you can have a teenage girl armed with a semi-auto to do the job I still think that's excessive though, I mean if someone steals something from a shop, surely they're not going to be gunned down for it?( I don't know, with the way the US is going it could be heading that way.)

Female players play less tennis because there's more empty seats and not enough TV viewers. Bottom line is people want to watch men play more than women play (and when men do watch women play it's usually to check out their legs and breasts and hope that the wind pulls up their skirt which in my opinion, is disgusting and downright sexist, the embodiment of sexism).

I have to disagree with you there my friend, discrimination laws do help to combat racism, sexism, discrimination against the disabled. The laws do work. For example, if a man and a woman are doing the same job, the man cannot be paid more for it, that's blatant sexism.

Also, if a company is making redundancies, then it would be obviously racist for them to let go all the black people etc. There are many cases where discrimination laws help a lot. (Although it didn't stop an Amazon warehouse from firing all the Muslim employees the day after 9/11, happened right here in the UK as well which is pretty shocking. Needless to say some of the employees took Amazon to court, I don't know what happened after that but a colleague of mine told me that he went to work in the morning after 9/11 to find the names of all Muslim employees on a board for redundancies, which is blatant xenophobia. There's something about US companies and the US in general that's so anti-Islam). Totally off-topic though.

[paulpablo]

The way I understand equality is for example in the situation where you have club security guards or whatever the example was you used, both males and females have the right to apply for the job , males will usually get the job because it requires brute strength which testosterone provides, but females can be stronger than men so females shouldn't automatically be turned away from the job JUST for being female.
The same sort of thing applies in primary schools, from my experience the majority of teachers in my primary school were female yet men shouldn't be turned away from the job just for being men.

It seems to me that you are just picking out two things that men are better at (not getting pregnant and being stronger) and saying "hey men are better than women".

There's things like living longer, teaching, being attractive (i think most people will agree the female body is more attractive than the male body which is more of a utility vehicle), proving comforting non threatening support to people and so on that women are stereotypically known for being better at.

and when men do watch women play it's usually to check out their legs and breasts and hope that the wind pulls up their skirt which in my opinion, is disgusting and downright sexist, the embodiment of sexism).

If checking out girls thighs is sexism then I plead guilty to that right here and now. I don't think it is by the way at all.

[ideologue08]

Equality never?

You cite isolated situations, such as a pregnant woman vs. a man---how about a non-pregnant woman vs. an alcoholic man? I know which I'd pick. You talk about a security guard position---how about a computer programmer? No equality there, either? Why should men be discriminated against as teachers? I know of no evidence that women are superior in this field. And in fashion? Many prestigious fashion designers are men.

"Equality" is an ideal, and it's hard to enforce an ideal effectively and fairly, but it's widely thought to be a worthwhile effort. In a lot of cases, women and men truly are equally qualified, despite cultural bias. For the sake of the ideal, some of us are willing to make allowances in certain situations, for pregnancy, say, or frequent trips to the bathroom because of an enlarged prostate.

The point is a man cannot be pregnant whereas both genders can be alcoholic, surely you couldn't have missed that? An employer was sued for sexual discrimination in the UK because he asked a woman when she plans to have children. This is a serious issue.

Well actually no. Discrimination- despite legislation designed to curb it- is rife across many industries such as sports, construction, security, teaching and up until recently Investment Banking (the UK govt is working hard in the banking sector but females continue to miss out).

[pocaracas]

I don't know about you guys, but, when it concerns sports, I prefer the women's version!



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