Why blood sacrifice?

[Raven]

What it is that I would like to discuss is the notion of “blood sacrifice”. It seems to me that it is a very abhorrent notion, and I've always had a real problem with it. I never could square my feelings with the whole “Passion of the Christ” business. It never made any sense to me at all. Why was it necessary for God to sacrifice himself to himself in order that humankind could be “saved” from ourselves? I mean, he's omnimax, isn't he? He could have whatever he bloody damn wants just by making it so. After all, he set all the rules in the first place, so all he had to do was have one of his prophets come along and preach at people that here's the new covenant, and so long as you follow the game plan your soul shall be saved. What's with the whole hang-up with suffering, blood, and death? Christianity really does not seem like a very healthy mindset on a lot of levels. Any thoughts?

[Silver]

Christianity really does not seem like a very healthy mindset on a lot of levels.

You are correct there. I imagine early Christians as blood thirsty psychopaths, licking their lips over the sadistic fiction they wrote to enslave mankind in gory chains of unquestioning obedience.

[evenheathen]

Hmmm... Methinks you should read up on your ancient pagan religions. After all, they are what Judaism and subsequently christianity stemmed from.

Ancient gods required sacrifices, they weren't as easy going as Jesus' dad.

In fact, it's in the OT that the smell of burnt offerings were pleasing to YWVH. But only the purest and/or fattest of the crop would do to please the insatiable god of the jews. Just like the other gods worshiped beside him in the ancient polytheistic culture that was early judaism before YWVH was adopted as the one "true" god.

(Edit: for clarity.
As I've heard it explained before (and keep in mind, I'm no scholar), the original text from the ten commandments stating "you will have no other gods before me" wasn't stating that YWVH was the only god, only that he was to be worshiped above all others. So even the original texts making up the OT didn't discount the idea of other gods existing. Ancient Jews were most definitely polytheistic.)

So the blood sacrifice of jesus is the last necessary offering to him to appease him of our sinfulness. Since he was the "one true lamb", we can all rest assured our place in blissful eternity so long as we believe in all that bullshit.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

It may be because from everyday observation, to obtain something desirable, you need to pay a price. it's a very basic part of human negotiation. when someone is in a position of great power, they can ask for anything they like, for example paying protection fees so no one messes with your property.

with nature being so unpredictable and hostile to humans, people may have thought that nature was a vengeful god that delights in deaths. So deaths became a currency to bargain with the gods for favours like a good harvest, less disasters, rain, and so on.

of course that's all purely speculation. but makes sense to me. which doesn't say much after spending 10 hours writing the same report.

[Kayenneh]

Because all of the cool gods demand blood. Yahweh can't be the pussy of the bunch

[evenheathen]

Because all of the cool gods demand blood. Yahweh can't be the pussy of the bunch

We mere humans have turned him into such, what with modernity. Paul was such a pussy. The original Yawheh would have kicked the shit out of Odin.

Well, I don't know. I have a healthy respect for Odin, but it would have been an awesome bloodbath.

[Kayenneh]

We mere humans have turned him into such, what with modernity.

You are of course right, gods have only as much power as is given to them and are only as bloodthirsty as their followers are.

[Raven]

I had said: Christianity does not seem like a very healthy mindset on a lot of levels.

Maelstrom wrote: You are correct there. I imagine early Christians as blood thirsty psychopaths, licking their lips over the sadistic fiction they wrote to enslave mankind in gory chains of unquestioning obedience.

Well put. I see it pretty much that way myself. In the interest of being fair, it would not appear to be at all uncommon to be OK with behavior that in this day and age we consider to be hideously barbaric, even sick. And it is not as if horrific things do not occur even now. As an example, there have been reports of people being stoned to death regularly in Iran. So I guess we're not over it yet.

Evenheathen wrote: Hmmm... Methinks you should read up on your ancient pagan religions. After all, they are what Judaism and subsequently christianity stemmed from.

Ancient gods required sacrifices, they weren't as easy going as Jesus' dad.

In fact, it's in the OT that the smell of burnt offerings were pleasing to YWVH. But only the purest and/or fattest of the crop would do to please the insatiable god of the jews. Just like the other gods worshiped beside him in the ancient polytheistic culture that was early judaism before YWVH was adopted as the one "true" god.

Reply: Yes, you are right about that. Some early religions were even, shall we say, messier. Human sacrifice was far from unknown all over the globe.

So yes, in the OT all kinds of things occurred. Blood sacrifice was common, as YWVH was pleased by it, he was even displeased by Cain's offer of produce instead of a live animal sacrifice as Abel had offered him, never mind that Cain was a farmer, not a shepherd. Seemed kind of unfair to me.

I can understand that 2,000 years ago something as far gone as someone going through a long, drawn-out torturous death as a blood sacrifice to atone for humankind's sins would not cause anyone back then to so much as bat an eye. But I'm not someone from 2,000 years ago when the Romans presented people getting killed in their arenas as entertainment. I would hope that we've advanced since then. What it is that bugs me is that the nuns, when I was a kid, taught us this nauseating story as if this is how things should be, for lack of a better way to put it. It gets constantly referred to here by our resident Christians as no big deal. It never seems to occur to any of these people that this is sick. How can it not be? Try and approach it and all you get is an attitude of if Godditit then it must be what was right. Or humanity's sins were that bloody awful, nothing less could atone for them.

Bullshit. If God existed and he is omnimax as claimed all he had to do was make it so, whatever it was that he wanted. But they can't see that. They never even notice the sheer horror of what is supposed to have happened. What kind of God is that? It's as if they are afraid to call him out on that, like you can't even have the thought that perhaps some of what he is supposed to have done is wrong, perhaps even pyschopathic. Maybe it is just me, but this is some seriously sick stuff.

[Faith No More]

I think it's important to keep in mind that ancient people viewed blood as the essence of life. Blood sacrifice was most probably viewed as sacrificing that which is most sacred.

[Raven]

I think it's important to keep in mind that ancient people viewed blood as the essence of life. Blood sacrifice was most probably viewed as sacrificing that which is most sacred.

I think you make a valid point.