Religious beliefs need to stop.

[Bad Writer]

This in no way solved the dilemma that the Bible cannot stand on its own. Good non-answer.

[Captain Colostomy]

Reading the Bible without supplements or rose-colored glasses should not be necessary if the Bible truly is the "good book".

It's a very difficult thing to understand and there are of course various things in there that an atheist would like to bring up as evidence that God is actually pure evil and all that business. If you're not prepared to encounter that then it may well "fix you up" for reason, logic and pure science or however you see it. But then it also has the power to "fix up" an atheist and give him the delusion of theism (as you think of it) if they were to seriously study it and understand it within the context. So you should read it yourself, again with a scholarly guidebook because it's difficult stuff to deal with. Before you do this you may need to free your mind a little from your little naturalistic box, else you will get nothing from it at all.

This is silly. When the source book of 'all that is good and holy' needs layers of interpretation just to make it palatable there is a huge freaking problem. That mere mortals pass along these interpretations as the true 'insider' meanings says less about the book and more about their own compulsion to make a purse from a sow's ear.

[Sword of Christ]

This in no way solved the dilemma that the Bible cannot stand on its own. Good non-answer.

It does stand up on its own but it was of course written by humans within a the context of a tribal warfare setting. Bear in mind that these were issues even early Christians were aware of and saw as a problem to deal with. So this is nothing new hasn't already been very well covered. These days of course we would point out things like slavery and so on but that's an argument that can be used against you if you think morality is some kind of objective reality. Apparently most atheists do think this as they're not saying "well it was moral for them at the time". Slavery wasn't moral back then and it's not moral now, only now we have a better understanding.

Also bear in mind that the Bible is not one book by one author it is a collection of 66 books written over 1500 years covering different historical eras and several different authors. The theme and thread of the book is consistent even if the views of the authors differed and at points even contradicted each other. This does not mean that the Bible is purely a work of man made fiction it contains the truth of God. There may well be some truth of God in other religious texts like the Bhagavad Gita as I appreciate the possibility that there is a common thread. Don't just read the Bible you can look at the other religions as well, broaden your scope a bit.

[The Reality Salesman01]

Lol, and to top it off, Christianity has a built in safeguard against logic! They are warned of people that will seem to make sense. They are told that these people are only interested in controversy and want only to trick and deceive and are gainfully employed by The Sultan of Sin himself. Absolutely brilliant. We live in a world where people are smart enough to get PHDs in physics, and still be dumb enough to think that sometime in the next 50 years Jesus is gonna come soaring down through the clouds like a superhero, on a wave of fire, laying all bad-guys to waste. Pretty disturbing to think about, don't you think?

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The Bible makes it implicitly clear that God spoke these words directly to Moses. At no point are these things ever clarified by Jesus or reconciled in any way other than Christians insistence on flipping past them to get to the parts they like...

Leviticus:26 14-21

14 “‘But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, 15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will bring on you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and sap your strength. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it. 17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you.

18 “‘If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. 19 I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze. 20 Your strength will be spent in vain, because your soil will not yield its crops, nor will the trees of your land yield their fruit.

21 “‘If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. 22 I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV


These are the rants of men. Your bible describes a fictional extension of man intended to manipulate and strike fear into the hearts of the simple minded. I'm baffled by your obtuse approach to these scriptures written in your bible.

[Sword of Christ]

The message of those passages is intended as a warning for maintaining your attention on God in this life. It's not all about where you go when you die. While God may not physically send plagues against you you're still going be afflicted in some way or you're robbed of some kind of inner vitality. This will be the case for the individual as well as nation states. Look what happened to Germany when they collectively turned their backs on God in the 1930s, or the state of Communist Russia. You don't want to end up like that what the Bible warning you about.

"'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" Luke 10:27

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Matthew 22:36

[Psykhronic]

There are quite a few secular nations that are doing pretty well for themselves. And evidence for Germans turning their backs on GAWD during the 1930s? And Russia doesn't seem to be doing much better with the whole "welcome back, religion!" thing.

[The Reality Salesman01]

"I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children" God said this in your bible. How is this something you so casually graze over? It's deeply disturbing. There's a whole book of this nonsense. Warning or not, this is the kind of stuff that happens in the world to Christian familiies, and if God is making threats about doing this stuff in your bible, and you believe God to be able to do it, you must be convinced that when these things occur, in this life, that it's your God doing it! You can't be this daft.

I present to you....YOUR GOD!

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The message of those passages is intended as a warning for maintaining your attention on God in this life. It's not all about where you go when you die.

"'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" Luke 10:27

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Matthew 22:36

This is what is referred to as textbook Cherry-Picking.

[Sword of Christ]

There are quite a few secular nations that are doing pretty well for themselves.

They haven't really turned their backs on God they're still adhering roughly to Christs teaching. That being said there is still a lot of greed and corruption, the recent banking crisis being an example. The closer a people or a person is to God the better they will be. If you abandon God entirely then there are consequences and Bibles warns the Jewish people never to do this over and over and over again.

And evidence for Germans turning their backs on GAWD during the 1930s? And Russia doesn't seem to be doing much better with the whole "welcome back, religion!" thing.

Hitler may have believed in a god of some kind but it sure as hell wasn't God. He loathed Christianity as weak and feeble minded btw. Russia has improved a lot since it's Communist days but there is room for improvement certainly.

[Psykhronic]

No kidding there is greed and corruption - and religious nations a part of the EU were also involved and affected, I might add.

You haven't given evidence of Hitler loathing christianity.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

There are quite a few secular nations that are doing pretty well for themselves.

They haven't really turned their backs on God they're still adhering roughly to Christs teaching. That being said there is still a lot of greed and corruption, the recent banking crisis being an example. The closer a people or a person is to God the better they will be. If you abandon God entirely then there are consequences and Bibles warns the Jewish people never to do this over and over and over again.

And evidence for Germans turning their backs on GAWD during the 1930s? And Russia doesn't seem to be doing much better with the whole "welcome back, religion!" thing.

Hitler may have believed in a god of some kind but it sure as hell wasn't God. He loathed Christianity as weak and feeble minded btw. Russia has improved a lot since it's Communist days but there is room for improvement certainly.

So all the countries that are doing well, despite being secular, despite not having a big population of Christians are Christlike.

Hitler, despite openly being Catholic, wasn't worshipping the same god you are worshipping now.

What's the point of Christianity if it cannot ensure its followers are going to be Christlike? Since that is the case you can't honestly say all atheists are doomed to some sort of vague catastrophic situation. Because obviously, beliefs have no effect on someone's behaviour. According to you. Actually you've said this many times, that Christians are not worshipping the "genuine Christ".