Why You Should Be Atheist

[downbeatplumb]

To me if God does not exist then this life is nothing.

I've heard this before and am perplexed by it. but lets read on.

One would spend approximately 70 years searching for happiness, trying to accumulate large sums of capital, or trying to better humanity in some way. After which they may leave a legacy, which probably few (compared to the earth's population) would hear of, and as they fade into nothingness would sooner or later be forgotten. This is a fate I do not accept.

Sorry but it appears what you want to reject is reality.

To me, living only to fade into nothingness is worthless, meaning life without a true God is worthless to me. I believe in God and I also believe in Jesus Christ, and that He is God, and I also believe in the Spirit. Now this is what I ponder, if I'm right, and God does exist, if Jesus Christ truly is our Savior, then when I die, I will be in paradise, enjoying the riches of God's kingdom for eternity. If I'm wrong, I lose nothing, because if God does not exist I consider this life nothing.

Translation: you'd rather live your life with a beautiful life than the truth.

Fair enough, who am I to piss on your parade. Believe your lie, just so long as it dosent affect me.

Now if an atheist is right, and there is no God, he gains 70 years (a tiny blip on the radar of humankind) of being right, and will soon fade like other countless generations. And even if he is remembered, and stands the test of time, can bones or ashes taste satisfaction? Now if he is wrong, and God does exist, when he dies he will pay a price beyond what can be imagined, being consigned to a fiery lake of burning sulfur for not accepting the love and forgiveness of his Father in Heaven.

Ah the old Pascals wager, back like an old shitty friend. Which god do you believe in by the way got to be careful not to piss the wrong one off.

To me, accepting God and following Him is well worth it. I've never been an atheist, so it's hard to contemplate the thought of no life after death, and hard to even think of it.

I can't imagine what it would be like to believe in god. God seems like such a stupid idea to me.

And I know it's hard for a lot of people to believe in God

Amen to that.

especially myself at times. There's hypocrisy all around us, and a lot of the time in the Church. It's also hard to explain that if God really loves us, then why would He let such great physical and mental disasters rip through His creation. I can't pretend to understand our God, because if our God could be understood, then He couldn't be God. Because if God is God, then He has all knowledge, all understanding, all wisdom, He's omniscient, knows the future and the past and is beyond our comprehension. I can't answer a lot of questions about God because I don't fully understand Him myself.

No-one has successfully defined god on this site.

For how can a creation fully understand its creator.

Why can't it?

One thing i can say is that this world is full of sinners, of whom i am the worst.

You are the worst sinner in the world! What sort of monster are you!!!!

And though disaster has ripped through my own life and continues to eat at me, i swear to you it has prepared me, prepared me for the hardships i face and continue to face. My life has been far from what some may consider "perfect," i have often drifted away from God. But i have trusted in God throughout it, and my life has been saved many times from death. i have had many second chances, and I've witnessed incidents that this earthly realm just cannot account for.

Really? this is most doubtful and needs proper investigation.

I'll admit, as Jesus' disciples did thousands of years ago, that living for and walking with God is not easy to the slightest extent, but God never said that it would be easy, He said it would be worth it. Accepting God as God is as simple as a sincere prayer, trust in Him, talk to Him, and the rest will come, this i promise you. It seems beyond me that one could accept that this world is all that we have. As a Christian, sometimes I am "ye of little faith," but all slander, all harsh remarks aside, if you listen to nothing else, truly, truly listen to this, be honest with yourself, i believe almost any logical thinker would not fully rule out a Creator.

We don't rule it out, we just have absolutely no evidence for one.
I am convinced there is no god but can be swayed by sufficient evidence.
This position still makes me an atheist. can you see how reasonable my position is.

Even if you believe there's a 1 in 10^70. To me that chance is worth taking, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I refuse to believe that this is it.

I'd rather be right. fortunately all the evidence is on my side. Yay me.

[Mister Agenda]

For instance, intelligent atheists would recognize that evidence (defined narrowly) is not wholly relevant. Peter Higgs predicted the Higgs Boson mathematically before we had a shred of physical evidence. He used applied logic (theoretical physics, ie the application of mathematics to physics). If Higgs' work justified serious consideration of the hypothesized God particle in the absence of evidence, then theism can rightfully claim the same consideration.

The math based on the evidence available justified looking for the particle. It did not justify believing in the particle in advance of the hypothesis being tested.

Of course, speaking of evidence is itself a silly thing. Do you expect to find physical evidence of a non-physical entity?

Only if it does anything that would affect the physical world.

Does a lack of direct physical evidence necessarily justify a lack of belief, such as when your eyes are closed and you lack visual evidence that your girlfriend is lying next to you?

If there has never been any evidence that a thing actually exists, belief in its existence is unjustified.

Intellectually responsible atheism is much more than merely declaring a lack of belief and goose-stepping about talking shit about religion. It ought to involve a familiarity with one's own intellectual position.

Neither the phrase 'intellectually responsible atheism' nor 'intellectually responsible theism' makes any sense. The words don't carry enough meaning for intellectual responsibility to apply to them. If you believe in some sort of god, you're a theist (or possibly a deist), and that's all there is to it. Unless you know more about what the theist believes, you can't critique their belief. I imagine some sort of agnostic who thinks theism means 'certainty that there is at least one god' encountering a Christian forum of a denomination that values doubt and telling them they aren't theists. Naturally, they insist they are theists, and the agnostic never gets past that and never finds out what they actually do believe, because the agnostic can't move forward until they admit they aren't theists.

I mean, I'd love to discuss the alleged evidence if I can be confident in substantial responses (example) as opposed to imbecilic nerd-rage (example).

I don't believe you. You're just a troll with delusions of grandeur. There's nothing to you but shit-stirring.

[Creed of Heresy]

To me if God does not exist then this life is nothing. One would spend approximately 70 years searching for happiness, trying to accumulate large sums of capital, or trying to better humanity in some way. After which they may leave a legacy, which probably few (compared to the earth's population) would hear of, and as they fade into nothingness would sooner or later be forgotten. This is a fate I do not accept. To me, living only to fade into nothingness is worthless, meaning life without a true God is worthless to me. I believe in God and I also believe in Jesus Christ, and that He is God, and I also believe in the Spirit. Now this is what I ponder, if I'm right, and God does exist, if Jesus Christ truly is our Savior, then when I die, I will be in paradise, enjoying the riches of God's kingdom for eternity. If I'm wrong, I lose nothing, because if God does not exist I consider this life nothing. Now if an atheist is right, and there is no God, he gains 70 years (a tiny blip on the radar of humankind) of being right, and will soon fade like other countless generations. And even if he is remembered, and stands the test of time, can bones or ashes taste satisfaction? Now if he is wrong, and God does exist, when he dies he will pay a price beyond what can be imagined, being consigned to a fiery lake of burning sulfur for not accepting the love and forgiveness of his Father in Heaven. To me, accepting God and following Him is well worth it. I've never been an atheist, so it's hard to contemplate the thought of no life after death, and hard to even think of it. And I know it's hard for a lot of people to believe in God, especially myself at times. There's hypocrisy all around us, and a lot of the time in the Church. It's also hard to explain that if God really loves us, then why would He let such great physical and mental disasters rip through His creation. I can't pretend to understand our God, because if our God could be understood, then He couldn't be God. Because if God is God, then He has all knowledge, all understanding, all wisdom, He's omniscient, knows the future and the past and is beyond our comprehension. I can't answer a lot of questions about God because I don't fully understand Him myself. For how can a creation fully understand its creator. One thing i can say is that this world is full of sinners, of whom i am the worst. And though disaster has ripped through my own life and continues to eat at me, i swear to you it has prepared me, prepared me for the hardships i face and continue to face. My life has been far from what some may consider "perfect," i have often drifted away from God. But i have trusted in God throughout it, and my life has been saved many times from death. i have had many second chances, and I've witnessed incidents that this earthly realm just cannot account for. I'll admit, as Jesus' disciples did thousands of years ago, that living for and walking with God is not easy to the slightest extent, but God never said that it would be easy, He said it would be worth it. Accepting God as God is as simple as a sincere prayer, trust in Him, talk to Him, and the rest will come, this i promise you. It seems beyond me that one could accept that this world is all that we have. As a Christian, sometimes I am "ye of little faith," but all slander, all harsh remarks aside, if you listen to nothing else, truly, truly listen to this, be honest with yourself, i believe almost any logical thinker would not fully rule out a Creator. Even if you believe there's a 1 in 10^70. To me that chance is worth taking, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I refuse to believe that this is it.

---

I don't believe you. You're just a troll with delusions of grandeur. There's nothing to you but shit-stirring.

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

One thing we can agree on, however is that Zazzy's definition is something that religious people don't use. It's a fictional definition,

It's not a fictional definition, it's the second in the dictionary, however it strangely disagrees with mine, which was the first: the definition of faith as having trust or belief in a person, idea, or thing. I need that kind of faith. also, that kind of faith just springs up on me. I have faith that my chair won't fall over, then it starts to tip too far backward. Oops.

I've talked to a few religious experts and none of the ones I've talked to endorse this definition. Maybe some religious posters here can confirm or deny this.

Until then, I'm ready to consider that definitions of fictional concepts can occur in the dictionary.

After all, isn't God defined in the dictionary?

---

I appreciate that you're trying to make a substantial post, but you're trading on too much bad logic here.

I can't dispute that your limited exposure might have led you to conclude the work is all "rationalizations and circumstantial fragments of data" (I'm interested to know what you are referring to specifically).

Well hell, if you've got proper evidence, then present it. This thread is called "why you should be an atheist," and if you have reasons why one shouldn't be, that's something that would advance the conversation.

But I can point out some very bad reasoning with your analysis of a theistic or deistic hypothesis. For instance, your trading on vague wording like "healthy chunks of the population".

Well, the majority of Americans seems to me like a rather hefty group. More than half of my native Australia is christian, not to mention all the other religions across the world; cumulatively, there are a lot of theists out there, regardless of whether I know the exact numbers or not, and the thing you presented in favor of this is that sometimes theoretical things turn out to be true before there is proof of it.

I agree with that, but I was pointing out that I don't think that's justification for the kind of religious machine the world currently has going on in it.

And your mistaken impression that the amount of time a claim remains unproven is indicative of it's truth value.

I never said that. You made a comparison, and I proceeded to show a kind of metric of how long these theoretical calculations go between being made and being proved. The fact that theistic claims have gone so long without being confirmed says nothing about whether they are true or false, but it is one factor among many that informs my atheism.

Not to mention the implication that the truth of a claim depends on peer-reviewed scientific publication. I mean, do you disbelieve your memories, or something someone tells you because it isn't peer reviewed? This is simply terrible reasoning.

You were the one that made the comparison between theism and the Higgs boson, not me. The fact is, I found that comparison flawed, so I pointed out some of the differences between the two concepts that make them incomparable; this is an entirely context-driven argument. These things aren't my go to arguments, but in terms of what you chose to present, they are my rebuttals.

If there exists a deity, and this deity is immaterial, no physical science is going to be able to "discover" it. Your fallacy here is called the category error.

So maybe stop comparing theistic claims to theoretical physics? Also, if this god is immaterial, how does one justify belief in it? Where is the point of contrast between belief in an immaterial theistic god and a delusional claim?

Moreover you assume testability is the mark of truth.

A mark of truth. These things always exist in a continuum. Do you think you could stop reducing my arguments to their most simplistic form before you respond to them?

Take a person named John who lived, say, 300 years ago. You can't test this agent's intervention in the world today- they've been dead for years. Does that mean they don't exist? Rubbish.

Well, it does depend on the claim, in a number of ways. Are you claiming that your god has been dead for years, or are you rather asserting a god that is still active in the world today, like so many theists do?

Moreover, our theoretical person named John? That's a mundane claim; we know people exist, we know they lived three hundred years ago, and we know that they are sometimes named John. What's the harm in believing this claim? In what way does it violate what we know about the universe?

Now, let's staple a few things onto our John claim: John created the universe. John has miraculous powers, impregnated a virgin via magic, and gave birth to himself. John created a worldwide flood that destroyed most of the population, etc etc...

Would you believe that kind of claim about anything else other than the god you happen to believe in?

You're halfway rational in making some of your claims. I get the feeling you're just not scrutinizing them enough, however, to see where they go off the rails and how to correct them.

Good thing what you responded to wasn't really my arguments, then.

---

To me if God does not exist then this life is nothing.

Are you for real, or are you trolling right now?

Why not just respond to each letter individually? What way is this to have a conversation?

[Esquilax]

Why not just respond to each letter individually? What way is this to have a conversation?

Were you, perhaps, looking for the Dismissive Question Dodging Forum, when you signed up here?

[Mothonis]

To me if God does not exist then this life is nothing. One would spend approximately 70 years searching for happiness, trying to accumulate large sums of capital, or trying to better humanity in some way. After which they may leave a legacy, which probably few (compared to the earth's population) would hear of, and as they fade into nothingness would sooner or later be forgotten. This is a fate I do not accept. To me, living only to fade into nothingness is worthless, meaning life without a true God is worthless to me. I believe in God and I also believe in Jesus Christ, and that He is God, and I also believe in the Spirit. Now this is what I ponder, if I'm right, and God does exist, if Jesus Christ truly is our Savior, then when I die, I will be in paradise, enjoying the riches of God's kingdom for eternity. If I'm wrong, I lose nothing, because if God does not exist I consider this life nothing. Now if an atheist is right, and there is no God, he gains 70 years (a tiny blip on the radar of humankind) of being right, and will soon fade like other countless generations. And even if he is remembered, and stands the test of time, can bones or ashes taste satisfaction? Now if he is wrong, and God does exist, when he dies he will pay a price beyond what can be imagined, being consigned to a fiery lake of burning sulfur for not accepting the love and forgiveness of his Father in Heaven. To me, accepting God and following Him is well worth it. I've never been an atheist, so it's hard to contemplate the thought of no life after death, and hard to even think of it. And I know it's hard for a lot of people to believe in God, especially myself at times. There's hypocrisy all around us, and a lot of the time in the Church. It's also hard to explain that if God really loves us, then why would He let such great physical and mental disasters rip through His creation. I can't pretend to understand our God, because if our God could be understood, then He couldn't be God. Because if God is God, then He has all knowledge, all understanding, all wisdom, He's omniscient, knows the future and the past and is beyond our comprehension. I can't answer a lot of questions about God because I don't fully understand Him myself. For how can a creation fully understand its creator. One thing i can say is that this world is full of sinners, of whom i am the worst. And though disaster has ripped through my own life and continues to eat at me, i swear to you it has prepared me, prepared me for the hardships i face and continue to face. My life has been far from what some may consider "perfect," i have often drifted away from God. But i have trusted in God throughout it, and my life has been saved many times from death. i have had many second chances, and I've witnessed incidents that this earthly realm just cannot account for. I'll admit, as Jesus' disciples did thousands of years ago, that living for and walking with God is not easy to the slightest extent, but God never said that it would be easy, He said it would be worth it. Accepting God as God is as simple as a sincere prayer, trust in Him, talk to Him, and the rest will come, this i promise you. It seems beyond me that one could accept that this world is all that we have. As a Christian, sometimes I am "ye of little faith," but all slander, all harsh remarks aside, if you listen to nothing else, truly, truly listen to this, be honest with yourself, i believe almost any logical thinker would not fully rule out a Creator. Even if you believe there's a 1 in 10^70. To me that chance is worth taking, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I refuse to believe that this is it.

As hal jordan once said,"Life doesn't have meaning,we give life meaning'

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

Why not just respond to each letter individually? What way is this to have a conversation?

Were you, perhaps, looking for the Dismissive Question Dodging Forum, when you signed up here?

No, I was looking for a forum where people were capable of interacting with a claim without having to

split

everything

up

to

respond

sentence

by

sentence

[MitchBenn]

To me if God does not exist then this life is nothing. One would spend approximately 70 years searching for happiness, trying to accumulate large sums of capital, or trying to better humanity in some way. After which they may leave a legacy, which probably few (compared to the earth's population) would hear of, and as they fade into nothingness would sooner or later be forgotten. This is a fate I do not accept. To me, living only to fade into nothingness is worthless, meaning life without a true God is worthless to me. I believe in God and I also believe in Jesus Christ, and that He is God, and I also believe in the Spirit. Now this is what I ponder, if I'm right, and God does exist, if Jesus Christ truly is our Savior, then when I die, I will be in paradise, enjoying the riches of God's kingdom for eternity. If I'm wrong, I lose nothing, because if God does not exist I consider this life nothing. Now if an atheist is right, and there is no God, he gains 70 years (a tiny blip on the radar of humankind) of being right, and will soon fade like other countless generations. And even if he is remembered, and stands the test of time, can bones or ashes taste satisfaction? Now if he is wrong, and God does exist, when he dies he will pay a price beyond what can be imagined, being consigned to a fiery lake of burning sulfur for not accepting the love and forgiveness of his Father in Heaven. To me, accepting God and following Him is well worth it. I've never been an atheist, so it's hard to contemplate the thought of no life after death, and hard to even think of it. And I know it's hard for a lot of people to believe in God, especially myself at times. There's hypocrisy all around us, and a lot of the time in the Church. It's also hard to explain that if God really loves us, then why would He let such great physical and mental disasters rip through His creation. I can't pretend to understand our God, because if our God could be understood, then He couldn't be God. Because if God is God, then He has all knowledge, all understanding, all wisdom, He's omniscient, knows the future and the past and is beyond our comprehension. I can't answer a lot of questions about God because I don't fully understand Him myself. For how can a creation fully understand its creator. One thing i can say is that this world is full of sinners, of whom i am the worst. And though disaster has ripped through my own life and continues to eat at me, i swear to you it has prepared me, prepared me for the hardships i face and continue to face. My life has been far from what some may consider "perfect," i have often drifted away from God. But i have trusted in God throughout it, and my life has been saved many times from death. i have had many second chances, and I've witnessed incidents that this earthly realm just cannot account for. I'll admit, as Jesus' disciples did thousands of years ago, that living for and walking with God is not easy to the slightest extent, but God never said that it would be easy, He said it would be worth it. Accepting God as God is as simple as a sincere prayer, trust in Him, talk to Him, and the rest will come, this i promise you. It seems beyond me that one could accept that this world is all that we have. As a Christian, sometimes I am "ye of little faith," but all slander, all harsh remarks aside, if you listen to nothing else, truly, truly listen to this, be honest with yourself, i believe almost any logical thinker would not fully rule out a Creator. Even if you believe there's a 1 in 10^70. To me that chance is worth taking, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I refuse to believe that this is it.

You know something that brings a lot of meaning (or at least comprehension) into my life?

PARAGRAPHS.

Or does God Hate The Return Key?