OK, now they're starting to scare me...

[DeistPaladin]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/the-hous...a-shutdown

It seems a last minute rules change in the House right before shutdown gave Boehner unlimited power to block any effort by the Senate to pass a clean government restart bill. There are already more than enough Republicans in the House who are feeling the heat and calling for an end to this madness but unless King Boehner decides to let them vote on it, it can't be done.

I'm not sure what can be done now. I wonder if a court injunction can be called on in time to prevent our default on the debt. This frankly is an abuse of power. Only the Senate has the power to filibuster a bill and even this power isn't concentrated into the hands of one man.

[Ryantology]

It is imperative that liberal activists do not let the country forget that Republicans are to blame for both the shutdown and the default, if that happens, so that we can finally flush that filthy toilet next November.

[freedomfromforum]

This is all a foreshadow of the coming antichrist™ - REPENT! Or the all loving god will have you sent to hell!!! (by himself in the form of his son)

[Cato]

I'm still confused. The GOP has asked for two things:

1. The penalty/tax for not abiding by ObamaCare is suspend for a year for individuals the same way it has already been suspended for businesses. Seems reasonable. I don't understand the Democrat position on this.

2. All U.S. citizens are subject to ObamaCare without better care being granted to certain members of government. Again, a reasonable request.

This is the extent of GOP demands regarding ObamaCare. That's it, nothing more.

[Raeven]

First, that is NOT only what they asked for. They demanded that the PPACA be fully defunded.

Second, the method of "asking" was an act of extortion. A minority of House Republicans put a gun to the head of the entire American Federal budget and caused a government shut down. Further, they then threatened to not raise the debt ceiling before October 17th, causing serious damage to the American (and resulting from that, the global) economy. They DEMANDED that the President "negotiate." It was never, ever a negotiation. Want to get rid of Obamacare? Elect enough nutjobs to Congress who think the same as you and do it through the usual legislative remedies available to you.

Third, Obama is in the cat bird seat. Did your Tea Party advocates somehow miss this? He is fed up to the teeth with their antics; he need not concern himself with reelection. Whatever anger and resentment sloshes onto him from voters as a result of this 3-ring circus, it will not damage him as much as the idiot ring leaders. And none of it will damage Hillary's brand in 2016. Can you think of ANYONE more likely to defend his health care agenda continuing into the future than her? I can't. The way things are going, I suspect she'll have a Democratic House to work with when she gets there, too. Thank you!!!

Fourth, as I explained in another thread, the reason for suspending penalty for compliance for business is because it is way more complicated for businesses to figure out how to comply than for individuals. The rules are complex, hard to understand for laypersons and overwhelming. Businesses must sort out if they are categorized as a large or small business; if large, whether the group plan they offer is considered "affordable" within the guidelines; if no plan offered, will it be less expensive to offer one or to encourage employees into the Exchanges; how health care premiums will be paid if some employees elect coverage through the Exchanges; whether such premiums may still qualify for tax-favored treatment for the individuals; etc., etc. On the side of individuals, it is simple: Enroll, or face a penalty. Does this finally make sense to you now?

Last, you'll have to show your basis for the assertion that "All U.S. citizens are subject to Obamacare without better care being granted to certain members of government." Are you saying that government saves all the "good" health care for themselves? Are the doctors who treat Congress critters somehow better than your own doctor? Gee, you should switch doctors, then! How is their care "better" than what is available to you through the PPACA? And be careful, because if you say they can participate in a plan something akin to Medicare and the rest of us cannot, well... that's all many of us wanted in the first place. That IS single payer health care.

[Autumnlicious]

I agree, You cannot change the law in this manner by holding a budget hostage.

If you want to change the law, do so with legislation as is prescribed.

This is a refusal to execute a fundamental duty for a political point.

[Doubting Thomas]

If you want to change the law, do so with legislation as is prescribed.

The problem is that Republicans know they don't have that kind of power any more. The only thing they can do is hold the budget hostage.

[Raeven]

If you want to change the law, do so with legislation as is prescribed.

The problem is that Republicans know they don't have that kind of power any more. The only thing they can do is hold the budget hostage.

Which is deliciously ironic, given that they spew constantly about strict interpretation of the Constitution and the rule of law... except it's doing so much harm to our citizens, as well as panicking governments abroad.

[DeistPaladin]

Which is deliciously ironic, given that they spew constantly about strict interpretation of the Constitution and the rule of law...

They also talk a lot about "personal responsibility". Needless to say, they never take responsibility for disasters on their watch. After the greatest national security debacle in our nation's history, W promoted the national security adviser to secretary of state. Their sense of "personal responsibility" has gone downhill since.

[KichigaiNeko]

I envisage a great many "Congressmen" out of a job come the next elections