Abiogenesis is impossible

[Jackalope]

no, but the quote came in handy..........

kinda newtonian. okay guess we have to go with that. fact is: no human has ever witness an effect before a cause, nor an effect greater than it's cause. U. generator?

Are you going to apply the same standard of evidence to your deity, or is this just special pleading?

[Esquilax]

kinda newtonian. okay guess we have to go with that. fact is: no human has ever witness an effect before a cause, nor an effect greater than it's cause. U. generator?

Oh cool, an argument from ignorance!

Snowtracks, you do realize that the category "things that happen," is not the same as "things humans have witnessed," right? "Things humans have witnessed," is, in fact, a subset of "things that happen."

[StuW]

I may be missing the context as I haven't read through the previous pages, but this caught my eye..

kinda newtonian. okay guess we have to go with that. fact is: no human has ever witness an effect before a cause, nor an effect greater than it's cause. U. generator?

[Angrboda]

I may be missing the context as I haven't read through the previous pages, but this caught my eye..

kinda newtonian. okay guess we have to go with that. fact is: no human has ever witness an effect before a cause, nor an effect greater than it's cause. U. generator?

[Image of nuclear blast: hidden]

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While I appreciate the sentiment, as a matter of physics, the energy released in a nuclear detionation is neither an increase nor a decrease in what was there prior to detonation; the effect is not greater than the cause.

[StuW]

Then I have a misunderstanding of the term "cause". As I understand it, the cause of the chain reaction is a smaller less powerful explosion that is funneled to a central point along with the resulting percussion waves. The fact that the latent energy in the atoms is already there in no way relates to the cause itself and is purely the end effect of the chain reaction.

[Lion IRC]

apophenia, do you believe there is an infinite or finite amount of stored energy in the universe?
Can we keep releasing atom bombs indefinitely?

[Angrboda]

Then I have a misunderstanding of the term "cause". As I understand it, the cause of the chain reaction is a smaller less powerful explosion that is funneled to a central point along with the resulting percussion waves. The fact that the latent energy in the atoms is already there in no way relates to the cause itself and is purely the end effect of the chain reaction.

The subject of cause and causality is a deep one which could fill multiple threads on its own. The compression of the nuclear material is, in one sense, a cause. However, that compression exists for one reason, to bring together enough nuclear material to reach critical mass, after which the laws of physics take over. It is the laws of physics acting on that critical mass which results in the atomic fireball.

An interesting side note about the development of the atomic bomb. One of the major hurdles in developing a useful bomb was increasing its efficiency. Because of the massive explosive forces unleashed once the core reaches critical mass, in early devices, this explosive force would cause the nuclear material to separate too quickly, dropping the core below critical mass and thus terminating the nuclear cascade before a significant release of energy was attained. Much of the practical work on the first atomic bomb consisted in working to develop a detonation system which would bring the source nuclear material together fast enough and into a sufficiently small space that a substantial reaction could occur prior to the reaction being self-terminated by the outward expansion of the explosion.

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Lion IRC: Your question effectively reduces to whether or not I think the universe is infinite or not. That question is, quite frankly, above my pay-grade. First you have to be specific about what you mean by the term 'universe'. Beyond that, my understanding is that the consensus in physics is that 'our universe' is finite but unbounded. This raises the further question of whether an actual infinity can exist, and which, again, is above my pay-grade.

[Norfolk And Chance]

So you cannot say that there is no God.

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT.

I am.

There's no god.

I found that incredibly easy.

[StuW]

The compression of the nuclear material is, in one sense, a cause.

So what is the initial cause of the chain reaction? the man in a bunker several miles away with his finger on the button?

that compression exists for one reason, to bring together enough nuclear material to reach critical mass, after which the laws of physics take over. It is the laws of physics acting on that critical mass which results in the atomic fireball.

I already stated that the initial explosion was the cause of the compression. Are you saying that the laws of physics are the initial cause of everything? Whatever you see as the initial cause of fusion/fission, it obviously isn't greater than the end effect otherwise it would be pointless as a weapon.

[downbeatplumb]

An interesting side note about the development of the atomic bomb. One of the major hurdles in developing a useful bomb was increasing its efficiency. Because of the massive explosive forces unleashed once the core reaches critical mass, in early devices, this explosive force would cause the nuclear material to separate too quickly, dropping the core below critical mass and thus terminating the nuclear cascade before a significant release of energy was attained. Much of the practical work on the first atomic bomb consisted in working to develop a detonation system which would bring the source nuclear material together fast enough and into a sufficiently small space that a substantial reaction could occur prior to the reaction being self-terminated by the outward expansion of the explosion.

Shaped charges?