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RE: All This Talk of 'Morals'
October 24, 2013 at 11:59 am
(October 24, 2013 at 10:48 am)John V Wrote: Because he freely admits to having those fruits in much less measure than many Christians I've known. If you're just arguing semantics, I'll restate it as relatively unsuccessful.
That goes way beyond semantics, because one way you have to accept that he was a successful Christian by some measure.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: All This Talk of 'Morals'
October 24, 2013 at 1:44 pm
Surely a successful christian is one that gets into heaven. Since he's posting here, I don't really see how that's possible. Well unless it was a day trip or something
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RE: All This Talk of 'Morals'
October 24, 2013 at 2:07 pm
What's religion got to do with having had fruits? That's just a matter of which kind of bar one frequents......
“To terrify children with the image of hell, to consider women an inferior creation—is that good for the world?”
― Christopher Hitchens
"That fear first created the gods is perhaps as true as anything so brief could be on so great a subject". - George Santayana
"If this is the best God can do, I'm not impressed". - George Carlin
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RE: All This Talk of 'Morals'
October 24, 2013 at 9:52 pm
(October 24, 2013 at 5:48 am)Tonus Wrote: I think that by and large, we "are who we are." I'm not much different from who I was when I was a believer, and most people I have known for a long time would not be able to tell the difference.
Religion can have a more subtle effect on people. For example, most of the JWs I know are smart, friendly, hospitable people. What I would refer to as "good people." Kind, caring, generous, and so on. Yet if commanded to do so, they would shun a fellow JW who had been removed from the organization. Note that being removed can be for something like joining a different Christian denomination. They would be shunned even by their closest friends and family, cut off from any communication or companionship. These would be those same smart, friendly, hospitable, kind, caring and generous people, suddenly turned very cold and distant, and in some cases very very cruel. Because they believe that they are helping a person to reconnect with god. That is, to me, the kind of damage that religion can do. Subtle yet devastating, and it turns otherwise wonderful people into very scary people.
This is not intended to insult you but, that is IMO the characteristic of a cult. I have other reasons to believe it as such also. I know scripture calls for excommunication of members who practice certain things that go against what the church is suppose to be, however I can not see that it says to completely reject the person.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: All This Talk of 'Morals'
October 24, 2013 at 9:58 pm
I have found those who like to talk about morals tend to not live as they preach. Just live a good life and shut up about living a "moral" life. That does not mean don't stand up to evil, but don't be a prick about your moral values. No one likes a self-righteous ass.....that applies to both believers and atheists alike.
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin.
