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RE: how to explain church miracles?
October 27, 2013 at 6:36 am
Also, even if we didn't have an explanation, to leap directly to "it's a miracle," is just an argument from ignorance. The best you could say is that this is a thing with a currently unknown explanation. Even leaving aside every other contention brought up in this thread, it's the churchies claiming that this stuff is miraculous that would need to demonstrate that, and the fact that they're more than happy assuming these things are miracles is fairly telling.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: how to explain church miracles?
October 27, 2013 at 8:56 am
Well, if you think about it, all our experiences are mediated by the mind, and the mind is malleable.
If you're in a isolation chamber, you will have all kinds of wild and convincing visions: hallucinations, and probably aural hallucinations. If they affect your mood (or relieve pain), you are likely to call them a miracle.
I'm curious why miracles are limited to things that COULD be explained in other ways: relieved pain, mass hallucinations, etc. Why doesn't God make a 1000-foot-tall cherry tree suddenly appear on top of Everest, just for giggles? Now THAT would be a miracle.
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RE: how to explain church miracles?
October 27, 2013 at 9:06 am
(October 27, 2013 at 8:56 am)bennyboy Wrote: Well, if you think about it, all our experiences are mediated by the mind, and the mind is malleable.
If you're in a isolation chamber, you will have all kinds of wild and convincing visions: hallucinations, and probably aural hallucinations. If they affect your mood (or relieve pain), you are likely to call them a miracle.
I'm curious why miracles are limited to things that COULD be explained in other ways: relieved pain, mass hallucinations, etc. Why doesn't God make a 1000-foot-tall cherry tree suddenly appear on top of Everest, just for giggles? Now THAT would be a miracle.
He could, but he's too busy making babies whose skin falls off to teach us, um, to teach us, ah, ... well, something.
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RE: how to explain church miracles?
October 27, 2013 at 9:38 am
I'm still scratching my head why the OP gave the tongue speaker extra cred for being, 'like 40'. Hell, I'm 40. If age equates additional sincerity, I need to start casing banks for young tellers. Papa needs a new car!
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RE: how to explain church miracles?
October 27, 2013 at 9:47 am
By that metric, I have 10% more credibility than you. The proof will show up in the form of kudos.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: how to explain church miracles?
October 27, 2013 at 10:13 am
You suck.
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RE: how to explain church miracles?
October 27, 2013 at 11:11 am
(October 26, 2013 at 8:07 pm)leodeo Wrote: When I was 16 my pastor took me to a guy who could speak in toyngues and the guy prayed for me and said some stuff in tongues, and was like "I can feel you are very depressed, but someday things will get better"...so do you think he was just bsing me and making up random noises? He was like 40 years old.
Speaking in tongues? Are you serious? That's no miracle. Anyone can babble incoherently and pretend it's some "ancient" language. But when those "languages" are studied, they're just found to be gibberish. I believe one once claimed to be speaking Aramaic but when language scholars studied a recording of his speech it was definitely not Aramaic or any other known language. "Speaking in tongues" is total bullshit.
Quote:Another time I was in church a guy came to speak and when he was done and everyone was kinda mingling, he took a look at me and the first thing he said was "you are going to be blessed this week"... And the next day my parents got me a golden retriever.
I guess you probably also believe in astrology, because this is such a general prediction that just about anything good that happens in the next week will fit, and true believers will make that mental connection. That's how "psychics," horoscopes, and other cons work. People make their own mental connections when something fits the "prediction," and ignore all the other stuff which doesn't fit.
Kind of like how Jeanne Dixon, the famous "psychic" always ran around claiming she predicted the JFK assassination (actually she made some vague prediction that he would die before leaving office, along with a few other "or possibly this" claims which covered all her bases) while she made hundreds of predictions every year which never came true. She always focused on the few hits and not the thousands of misses.
Quote:Also for skyrim fans have u seen the fus roh day in church where the priest says something and everyone falls down? Do u think that was a set up?
You obviously don't understand the sheep-like mentality of people who go to churches like that. When a few people start falling down, the rest think that's what they're supposed to do also and don't want to be the only one still standing. And if Benny Hinn's church is anything like a Catholic mass, there are certain times where everyone sits, everyone stands, and everyone kneels. At any rate, it's definitely not a miracle.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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RE: how to explain church miracles?
October 29, 2013 at 10:27 pm
(October 26, 2013 at 9:31 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote: Even the part of the Bible where speaking in tongues comes from (the ending of Mark) is known to have been added later by Christians. It is true that there is serious doubt among biblical scholars that Mark 16:9-29 belong to the gospel of Mark. The ending of Mark, however is not the only mention of speaking in toungues. The main passage that I think Christians often refer to is in Acts chapter 2 and from what I know (I could be wrong), there is not any debate among biblical scholars that this passage lacks continuity with the rest of the book of Acts unlike the above mention of the passage in Mark. Also, there are two other mentions of speaking in toungues that I know of in Acts - 10:46 and 19:6.
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RE: how to explain church miracles?
October 30, 2013 at 7:41 pm
thanks lotta good info here, I recently got banned from the christian forum I been going to since 2008, not because i trolled or anything, but because in the depression section i would complain a lot about how i hate life, want to die, and etc, and apparently the staff thought i was bringing the boards down, so they voted me off the island i guess....o well,
i'll be more active here, i feel happier as an atheist, cuz i just tell my self, life just a bitch, rather then "god is screwing with me!!!" which makes me more miserable...
just gonna accept my lot in life, and do the best i can to get through, im a spiritual atheist and i believe that after i die i will go to a "heaven" where everything will be perfect and i'll have a really nice girlfriend and be happy 
btw i loved this quote posted earlier:
"Spending your life waiting for the messiah to come and save the world is like waiting around for the straight piece to come in Tetris. Even if it comes, by that time you've accumulated a mountain of shit so high that you're fucked no matter what you do."
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RE: how to explain church miracles?
October 31, 2013 at 10:18 am
(October 30, 2013 at 7:41 pm)leodeo Wrote: "Spending your life waiting for the messiah to come and save the world is like waiting around for the straight piece to come in Tetris. Even if it comes, by that time you've accumulated a mountain of shit so high that you're fucked no matter what you do."
As someone who played a lot of Tetris, I like this quote.
As far as the depression, I would have suggested you seek medical help (and still would suggest that if you're still depressed) rather than kick you out. For some reasons Christians have a hard time dealing with depressed people, I think because they all have the attitude of "how can anyone be sad after hearing the joyous Good News of the Lord?"
Alternatively, I remember hearing about a depression chat room that was extremely intolerant of and automatically banned anyone using a religious nickname or anyone preaching religion. I guess they had their fill of it.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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