'Saved' from Myself

[freedomfromforum]

I have recently been asked by a few forum members if I am considering returning to my Christian faith. The question comes in response to me making mention of my having participated in some church groups recently. As a brief recap, I will remind anyone who may recall my intro thread of my de-conversion about 4-5 months ago, and I will add that I am more certain about my decision with each passing day, and I have no regrets for ditching my Christian faith. I suspect that the question arises less from me mentioning my mere involvement within the aforementioned groups, and is more founded in response to the content of my posts concerning the specifics of said participation. When I first de-converted, I was very angry at the church, and several humans within the church. My own post history on this forum is a testimony in itself of how vehemently I attacked Christians of all stripes solely for the reason that they had faith. My involvement within this forum has exposed me to many angry people (and has exposed the depths of my own capacity for hatred). I realize that tone and manner are lost online, but there is no escaping the obvious level of animosity directed toward theists on this forum. I have made some comments, posts, and entire threads where my sole purpose was to bolster my own bigotry, and to have my attacks lauded by other atheists. It has only been recently that I've begun to see things differently, and even now I am aware of amends that I must make to entirely purge myself of this divisiveness. I attribute my ‘awakening’ to my time here on this forum, and also to my participation in the church groups I sometimes attend.

I went to one particular group for two years, and I know the people there well. Originally, I went back to spend time with my Christian wife and my friends in the group - I have no interest in the subject material other than the wisdom sometimes contained therein. Then, as time went on, I began to find that I could impart a certain humanistic flavor of my own within the group, and I found a way to inject reasoning into the context of the conversation. I found that I was capable of answering biblical/moral/life questions with humanistic reasoning, and I also found commonalities the faith has with all of humanity, and I've begun to focus on those things. People in the group say they’ve missed me (I left when I first de-converted), and that they are very pleased to see me coming back to the group. Some people have commented that I seem much more sanguine and readily available to offer wisdom and support. They have commented that my attitude and composure are softer, warmer, and more open. In kind, I have come to see these humans as beings not unlike myself, and very much in need of understanding, and a sense of being loved and accepted, and of belonging. These people share the same struggles in everyday life as I, and the main difference between us is not our faith, in, and of itself, but our everyday responses to life in general. I see much more that I have in common with theists, than ways in which we differ. I for one, have no need to respond to life considering any sort of god, and I don’t have any interest biblical in fantasies, but I can understand why someone else would want to be different, and feel the need to conjure answers from the darkness. Other than my wife, only two people in the group know I’m an atheist. My atheism, within the group, has afforded me the opportunity to demolish the ill-formed opinions and ideas of what atheism is among some theists within the group. I intend to continue participating in the group until every last person in the group observes a commonality that I can address, sans the religious dogma. I am excited by what we have in common, and the dividing line is getting increasingly thin from my perspective. Now, all I need to do is love these human beings the way I’d wish to be loved - with consideration, kindness and respect.

Feel free to comment, bash, suspect, reject, ignore, agree, whatever. All opinions are welcome. I'm looking forward to continuing to evolve into the best human being this one life will allow, and I'd be a fool to disregard all considerations. Thanks for reading

fff

[Mystical]

I love this fff, it's exactly my sentiments since we talked and I look forward to trying to get to the point you are at (right now I'm trying to pull in the dividing line). It's hard, but I'm coming to realize that just like I take each individual I meet based on their merits, I should do the same for the theists I encounter on this forum. In the end we aren't as different as we think. I think that anger is a natural progression of deconversion. Some never progress past that point, hence the stereotypes atheists have incurred over the years. I'm trying to find a level ground with a Christian forum I've been a member of for years-- they witnessed my deconversion, now I want them to see that I'm still me and I do love them. I think you have the basic spirit of what we should all strive for, keep at it You're a good ambassador.

[freedomfromforum]

Thank you missluckie26. Let us see how long my new composure will endure, and let us see if my future posts are representative of what I have expressed here. I am making myself vulnerable, and I'm trusting my fellow man(kind). I'm tired of fear and anger ruling my interactions with others, and it's about time I saw my way to a better way of thinking. I still intend to call bullshit on bullshit, but I'll do it in a manner that respects the person, if not their beliefs. If the individual is only catty, divisive, and rude, then I'm likely not to respond - rather than with my former method, which was to lower myself to that same level in response.

[Raven]

Congrats, bro. You're really moving in a positive direction. As for me, I don't think I'll ever be able to do that. It would be great if I could, but I don't know if I could ever see religion in anything other than a negative context. Far too much water has gone over the dam for that, as it were. Further, I've my own family who refuse to even talk to me since I stopped believing. My wife is still a believer, and it has not messed up our relationship any, but she still hopes (and prays) that I'll "see the light" and change my mind.

I wish I could pull off what you are doing. Perhaps one day I can get my head into that place. But I just cannot see religion as anything other than utter poison that has absolutely nothing positive to offer humankind. If you've read Hitchens, then you have a good notion of how I feel about it, and for very much the same kind of reasons.

But I'm glad for you FFF, you are doing a very positive thing for yourself. Keep it up.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Don't take this the wrong way, fff, but I quite frankly couldn't care the tiniest bit whether you return to your Christian faith or not. You seem a fine person, that's all that matters.

Boru

[Doubting Thomas]

I'm with Raven. I, too, see all the harm religion has done in the world, and living in a red state I resent Christianity for not allowing me to be open about my nonbelief as much as Christians are allowed to be open about their belief. I resent that I have to hide my atheism in a closet.

I don't want to be bitter toward someone just because they are a Christian. But I don't tolerate intolerance or willful ignorance.

[Minimalist]

My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.
-- Abraham Lincoln

You are in good company, FFF.

[Bob Kelso]

I'm with DT and Raven on this, I see too much bigotry and willful ignorance around me for "bygones". I'm an atheist and refuse to be in the closet about it and I get a lot of proselytizing and criticism my way because of it. Some might say this is a small issue because religion isn't brought up in polite conversation, I live in the south and I can assure you this is not the case in my area.

I appreciate your new attitude though FFF and can only hope to echo by way of mutual respect for the believer until given a valid reason to defend or attack, conversationally speaking of course. I try to think in terms of "hate the belief not the believer" but sometimes my disdain for Christianity gets the better of me.

[FallentoReason]

Other than my wife, only two people in the group know I’m an atheist.

Jeez, you must be pretty good at acting!

[Owlix]

I just can't get past the fact that they're WRONG! I can't prove they are but that doesn't mean I don't know they are.

It's like when I'm watching a movie with friends or family and that person says "oh that's this actor". I say "no, it's not" they say, "well who is it then?" I say "I don't remember at the moment but I'm telling you I know it's not the guy you think it is, he was in this movie and that movie... the guy here ISN'T that actor" and everyone doubts because I can't tell them who it is, I just know who it Isn't.

Argh. When I know I'm right I just feel a need to display my evidence. By which point most others have lost interest and moved onto another subject so that when I bring said evidence, they're always like "oh, are we still on that?" Fuck yes we're still on that because I know I'm right and I need you to admit it!

So that's where I'm at right now.

I am certain in my heart of hearts, My mind of minds, my rationale, common sense, with every fiber of my being, that God and gods are not real. Can I prove it? No. Which sucks.

But I am learning to just drop it and let people be uneducated and ignorant (I try to be more understanding but I just can't. The sky is blue, most grass is green, plants breathe CO2 in and exhale oxygen. And if you think otherwise you need to open your eyes.)

A few weeks back, I was out with a friend and the subject of god came up for the first time. I said, 'no, I don't believe in god' and she said, 'oh yeah, I have a few other friends that are satanists...'. I said 'well, I don't worship him either....' and the conversation just faded away. Maybe it's easiest to do that.