From atheism to Christianity? How so?

[Polaris]

How did this happen?

I'm inclined to think a mini-stroke...or maybe a brain tumor. They can impact personality in serious ways.

[Minimalist]

The simple answer is personal proof of God.

Us normal people call that fucking delusion, drippy.

[Severan]

Say someone... pfffff, any random atheist, not calling out anyone... converted to Christianity. How did this happen? Anybody else... er, I mean anybody here been there, done that?

I confess I'm skeptical to this. First thing to pop into my head is that this is just another fundie trying to save souls by fitting in then sticking the hook down the throat.
Granted I could be wrong. Show me.

I don't think that there are as many Atheists converting to christianity as there are christians converting to Atheism. It must be because we have better arguments.

Anyhow, the only way I see an Atheist converting to christianity is if they become delusional. (Most christians are)

[Strongbad]

Hello there,

You are saying you don't believe I was ever an atheist because you don't see how any true atheist could ever come to a belief in God? It happens all the time. Here are a couple of lists of more well known people who converted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_con..._nontheism
http://www.ranker.com/list/former-atheis...s-atheists

I would ask every person on every list you could produce the same set of questions I asked you. Responding to the questions with "well, here's a bunch of other people who converted from atheism to theism" isn't really a response at all, is it?

I am tempted to drudge up the no true scotsman fallacy on you, strongbad.

Good catch. It is quite apparent from your subsequent responses that you were in fact a "non-theist", and I mistook you to be an atheist.

(side note: What about all those people on the lists that converted to Judaism or Islam? Did they just "interpret" their "experiences" incorrectly? Because as you now know from all of your "research", Christianity is the only true religion, right?)

Well, they were experiences that touched my soul and transformed my inner being.

Atheists don't believe the claims that "souls" exist, but you believed your "soul" was touched BEFORE you became a theist? Something smells fishy in here...

"Personal experience" "personal revelation" "it is impossible for me to demonstrate that God exists to you unless God has also revealed it to you." "certain revelation" "Everything that has happened since then has confirmed my experience"

All anectdotal. All standard Christian apologetics. All bullshit.

[Ksa]

Why everyone talking about revelation...the book of revelation where Jesus said "I am alpha and the omega" was a dream, where John saw unicorns, with thorns in, thorns out, horns with eyes growing in them, you know, if a man eats too much or grabs the wrong mushroom, he gets that type of experience. So the only place where Jesus himself says he's God it's in John's dream! LOL

Book of revelation is garbage.

[Dragonetti]

So, people on mushrooms wrote the book?

I would speculate drugs were involve in the creation of this book.

[agapelove]

No answer about the G problem makes Ksa sad

Sorry, I missed it. I think first of all that you're assuming that "a God" is the correct translation. There is a reason that all of the translations render it "was God" and not "was a God",because word for word it doesn't say that. This is the literal translation:

in beginning was the word and the word was with the God and God was the word

Why it ends up the way it does is above my paygrade, but it has some to do with definite articles and nouns in the nominative form. I think what is more important to consider is, first of all, that John and Paul are not polytheists. They are both strict monotheists and aren't just going to throw multiple gods into the narrative, suddenly. These words that are used have to be understood in their proper context, both culturally and within their own vocabulary.

I will say second of all that my argument for the divinity of Jesus Christ doesn't rest on John 1:1. There are many other scriptures which prove His divinity, in my opinion. This doesn't really address the counter argument, which explains the seeming contention between Jesus as man and Jesus as God. Could you address some of that because that was the original issue you raised.

I would ask every person on every list you could produce the same set of questions I asked you. Responding to the questions with "well, here's a bunch of other people who converted from atheism to theism" isn't really a response at all, is it?

Good catch. It is quite apparent from your subsequent responses that you were in fact a "non-theist", and I mistook you to be an atheist.

(side note: What about all those people on the lists that converted to Judaism or Islam? Did they just "interpret" their "experiences" incorrectly? Because as you now know from all of your "research", Christianity is the only true religion, right?)

Your questions were all rhetorical, leading to your point in which you stated you didn't believe me. And so I produced the lists in response to your disbelief that an atheist could convert to Christianity. I was an agnostic atheist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

"Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact"

If you're saying that isn't a true atheist, what is a true atheist?

(side note: What about all those people on the lists that converted to Judaism or Islam? Did they just "interpret" their "experiences" incorrectly? Because as you now know from all of your "research", Christianity is the only true religion, right?)

I believe what Jesus said in John 14:6. Is it implausible to you that there is only one right way to do things? If you bought a plane ticket to Chicago, for instance, when you got to the airport would you board just any plane?

All anectdotal. All standard Christian apologetics. All bullshit.

Let me ask you this: If Jesus is the real deal, would you want to know? Would you be willing to step out on a limb and pray for that information? If not, why not?

I was once a christian, it was a position of ignorance more than anything really. But I did have a few "experiences" tied to the bible but I shook them off after I understood more about how the brain works and after I see the bible for the fiction that it is. And I have had more "spiritual" experiences (mainly euphoria, feelings of being connected to the universe, time and space, being part of something bigger, that sort of stuff), since. But I have never attributed them to god and I highly doubt any personal experience would even sway my position as intellectually I do not accept those as evidence because truths are not personal but universal.

So I guess what I'm looking for is what were those experiences and what was the revelation. I might see an explanation that you don't, but this could help in understand how you got to a belief system.

The experiences were not just transcendent love, peace and joy but also things which happen in the world. I started to experience numerous coincidences until it seemed they were not coincidences but deliberate orchestrations. For instance, going across country and meeting the same two people a thousand miles away at the same place and time when they didn't know eachother, weren't traveling your route, and were actually headed in two completely different directions. Needing a certain amount of money and having someone slip you the exact amount anonymously when you hadn't told anyone. Needing certain items and having people come out of the woodwork to give them to you. Having one leg that was shorter than the other grown out to be even with the other leg. Dreaming about something and then having it repeated to you by people multiple times. Studying something specific and having it repeated to you by people multiple times. Things of that nature.

I couldn't really begin to describe how many of these things have happened. Individually you might write some of them off, but taken together they add up to a chain of evidence of the actions of an all powerful God. Not absolute proof but they certainly helped me to see that God is in control. Looking back on my life I can clearly see that the amazing things I had written off as coincidence were the hand of God over my life.

The revelation was about the triune nature of God. I kept getting signs about God being 3 in 1 (literally hundreds and hundreds of times) but I didn't get it until I read the bible. The signs were usually in numbers, like 333, and I could feel God showing me something about Himself, but I didn't get it until I read the bible.

Sorry if I missed anyone else!

[Ksa]

Philippians 2:5-8 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

When the eternal Son of God became a man, He emptied Himself of all of His divine privileges and lived exactly as a man would live. His entire ministry was not done through His own power, but through the power of the Holy Spirit:

Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.

So that is why you see Jesus making statements like this:

John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.

While Jesus never ceased being God, He put that aside to live as a man before God the Father, who was now His God as well as His Father. His relationship with God the Father had changed because He had now permanently incorporated the human nature into His being and was now permanently subordinated to God the Father. He voluntarily, eternally, took a lower position for our sake, although that doesn't mean He is any less God. It just means that in the Kingdom of God there is a heirarchy in the Trinity:

1 Corinthians 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

I hope that helps!

Ok I think you refer to this passage. Brother quoted important verses among which is a very important verse, John 14:10, that kind of rhymes with John 10:30, the context is relatively the same.

The Jews were...a difficult people to lead as a prophet. Comments like "just show us the father and that will suffice" or "give us a miracle" showed how little the Jews understood of what Jesus was preaching. A 5 year old nowadays could ask better questions. Jesus was...exasperated. No matter how he would twist his sentences, the Jews would not understand what his mission was: To deliver a message.

Jesus' words were too heavy for them so Phillip told Jesus like an idiot: Just show us the FAAATHER and that will suffice, and Jesus told him you're an IDIOT! How long have we known each-other...I wasted my saliva with you so much and you STILL don't understand my mission here?

Put yourself in Jesus' shoes. The Jews could not understand. He used simpler language and STILL they could not understand. So, he invented those sentences...suited for mental retards such as "if you've seen me, you've seen the FAATHER." or "I and my father are one" (here he means one in purpose) so that even an autistic person with self injurious urges would follow him and believe his word to be the word of God.

What you do is, with your high IQ, outstanding education and 2013 wakefulness, you take those sentences like John 14:10 or John 10:30 ad literam. Those sentences are not suited for you, they are suited for the mental retards of 2,000 years ago who were too dumb to understand him! If Jesus spoke to YOU instead in John 14:10, he would say: "I'm here to apply the standard procedure set in place by my father, including Moses' commandments along with a few upgrades that I'm willing to go into more detail at a later time". That's what John 14:10 would sound like. But the Jews were so idiotic that Jesus had to bend the language in so many ways, that, if taken out of context...ok...it cannot be taken out of context, period.

It was addressed to his disciples, not to you. Not to the reader of the Bible. Imagine I tell my mother "turn off the cooler please." and someone writes down what I told my mother and goes to my workplace in a nuclear station and says "Ksa said to turn off the cooler", so they disable the cooling system and the reactor explodes.

Those words of Jesus were not addressed to a guy in 2013 with a high IQ, they were addressed to an IDIOT from 2,000 years ago who couldn't understand what Jesus was saying.

[popeyespappy]

---

No answer about the G problem makes Ksa sad

Sorry, I missed it. I think first of all that you're assuming that "a God" is the correct translation. There is a reason that all of the translations render it "was God" and not "was a God",because word for word it doesn't say that. This is the literal translation:

in beginning was the word and the word was with the God and God was the word

Why it ends up the way it does is above my paygrade, but it has some to do with definite articles and nouns in the nominative form. I think what is more important to consider is, first of all, that John and Paul are not polytheists. They are both strict monotheists and aren't just going to throw multiple gods into the narrative, suddenly. These words that are used have to be understood in their proper context, both culturally and within their own vocabulary.

I will say second of all that my argument for the divinity of Jesus Christ doesn't rest on John 1:1. There are many other scriptures which prove His divinity, in my opinion. This doesn't really address the counter argument, which explains the seeming contention between Jesus as man and Jesus as God. Could you address some of that because that was the original issue you raised.

I would ask every person on every list you could produce the same set of questions I asked you. Responding to the questions with "well, here's a bunch of other people who converted from atheism to theism" isn't really a response at all, is it?

Good catch. It is quite apparent from your subsequent responses that you were in fact a "non-theist", and I mistook you to be an atheist.

(side note: What about all those people on the lists that converted to Judaism or Islam? Did they just "interpret" their "experiences" incorrectly? Because as you now know from all of your "research", Christianity is the only true religion, right?)

Your questions were all rhetorical, leading to your point in which you stated you didn't believe me. And so I produced the lists in response to your disbelief that an atheist could convert to Christianity. I was an agnostic atheist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

"Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact"

If you're saying that isn't a true atheist, what is a true atheist?

(side note: What about all those people on the lists that converted to Judaism or Islam? Did they just "interpret" their "experiences" incorrectly? Because as you now know from all of your "research", Christianity is the only true religion, right?)

I believe what Jesus said in John 14:6. Is it implausible to you that there is only one right way to do things? If you bought a plane ticket to Chicago, for instance, when you got to the airport would you board just any plane?

All anectdotal. All standard Christian apologetics. All bullshit.

Let me ask you this: If Jesus is the real deal, would you want to know? Would you be willing to step out on a limb and pray for that information? If not, why not?

I was once a christian, it was a position of ignorance more than anything really. But I did have a few "experiences" tied to the bible but I shook them off after I understood more about how the brain works and after I see the bible for the fiction that it is. And I have had more "spiritual" experiences (mainly euphoria, feelings of being connected to the universe, time and space, being part of something bigger, that sort of stuff), since. But I have never attributed them to god and I highly doubt any personal experience would even sway my position as intellectually I do not accept those as evidence because truths are not personal but universal.

So I guess what I'm looking for is what were those experiences and what was the revelation. I might see an explanation that you don't, but this could help in understand how you got to a belief system.

The experiences were not just transcendent love, peace and joy but also things which happen in the world. I started to experience numerous coincidences until it seemed they were not coincidences but deliberate orchestrations. For instance, going across country and meeting the same two people a thousand miles away at the same place and time when they didn't know eachother, weren't traveling your route, and were actually headed in two completely different directions. Needing a certain amount of money and having someone slip you the exact amount anonymously when you hadn't told anyone. Needing certain items and having people come out of the woodwork to give them to you. Having one leg that was shorter than the other grown out to be even with the other leg. Dreaming about something and then having it repeated to you by people multiple times. Studying something specific and having it repeated to you by people multiple times. Things of that nature.

I couldn't really begin to describe how many of these things have happened. Individually you might write some of them off, but taken together they add up to a chain of evidence of the actions of an all powerful God. Not absolute proof but they certainly helped me to see that God is in control. Looking back on my life I can clearly see that the amazing things I had written off as coincidence were the hand of God over my life.

The revelation was about the triune nature of God. I kept getting signs about God being 3 in 1 (literally hundreds and hundreds of times) but I didn't get it until I read the bible. The signs were usually in numbers, like 333, and I could feel God showing me something about Himself, but I didn't get it until I read the bible.

Sorry if I missed anyone else!

---

John? Very few serious scholars believe the gospel of John was written by John the Apostle. Why put so much weight in that particular story?

As far as the agnostic atheist thing goes most here identify as agnostic atheists. I believe what is being questioned is if you were ever an atheist at all.

[Ksa]

^ Dude imagine the father of a child tells me to pick up his kid from school and bring him home to him, so I talk to the child but the child doesn't know who I am, so I say: "it's ok sweetie, if you see me, you see your father" meaning, it's ok, I represent your father, come see me and you'll see your father.

Then IQ 150 dude comes and takes my phrase ad literam as though it was addressed to him and says that me and the child's father are the same person. It's a contextual mistake, my phrase was addressed to 5 year olds OR to mental retards like the Jews 2,000 years ago that surrounded Jesus. Christians are clearly reading what they want to hear.