From atheism to Christianity? How so?

[Esquilax]

I,ve been reading this whole experience that AgapeLove has had. It is almost identical to those that I have had. I would submit that all of you have faith in something too! You believe what you will about scientific principles that seem to reflect your understanding of a subject. Do you test out every principle by which you believe? Can you? Are you able to repeat every test and every principle so you can prove that your faith is justified? Do you believe everything that these educated people say just because they are intelligent? I am asking a lot of questions since you do not seem to have understood the impotance of another reality with proofs all of their own.

Except that's not faith: it's a reasonable expectation that the people trained to discover certain things know what they're talking about. Do you have faith in a plumber when you call one to fix your sink, or do you just accept that sometimes you require help from outside sources? Additionally, when a scientist says something, they don't just assert it, they also present their workings, experimental data and often repeatable steps for how the experiment that led them to their conclusions are done. One could find out for themselves with relative ease, so don't even pretend that science and religion are remotely similar.

What you're doing is a little bait and switch, where you're using faith to mean "accepting something you don't know for certain," which is dishonest because nobody ever knows anything for certain; some of us are just brash enough to pretend like they do.

Incidentally, you didn't come close to answering the question I actually posed to you about prayer, either.

[RDK]

I,ve been reading this whole experience that AgapeLove has had. It is almost identical to those that I have had. I would submit that all of you have faith in something too! You believe what you will about scientific principles that seem to reflect your understanding of a subject. Do you test out every principle by which you believe? Can you? Are you able to repeat every test and every principle so you can prove that your faith is justified? Do you believe everything that these educated people say just because they are intelligent? I am asking a lot of questions since you do not seem to have understood the impotance of another reality with proofs all of their own.

Except that's not faith: it's a reasonable expectation that the people trained to discover certain things know what they're talking about. Do you have faith in a plumber when you call one to fix your sink, or do you just accept that sometimes you require help from outside sources? Additionally, when a scientist says something, they don't just assert it, they also present their workings, experimental data and often repeatable steps for how the experiment that led them to their conclusions are done. One could find out for themselves with relative ease, so don't even pretend that science and religion are remotely similar.

What you're doing is a little bait and switch, where you're using faith to mean "accepting something you don't know for certain," which is dishonest because nobody ever knows anything for certain; some of us are just brash enough to pretend like they do.
Since as humans, we can not possibly know all of the combinations by which a conclusion can be drawn. Two people can observe the same event and draw two very different conclusions based on their experience. If you have not experienced something similar, you have no disposition to draw the same conclusions. The problem with these debate type forums is that one man is describing his experiences of spirituality while the other works feverishly to vilify his interpretations. Whose experience is more valid, yours or mine. How can I know for assurity that the research you did was really valid at all. I would have to trust that you are not lying to me. I don't deny the genuine things that science has done to improve our world. I could test out the principle and have similar results. You can have the same results I have had with spiritually discerned things. It requires thought and perservearance, the same that the scientists do when trying to analyze a problem. Use the same scientific principle to analyze a possibility for which you have never taken seriously.
Prayer is basically talking to God about things. When you talk to someone do you demand an answer. How about some respect when it comes to this stuff. If God knows that the communication is not genuine, He can see right through it. Most atheists I have talked to don't want to communicate with someone they don't know (a spirtual source).
If I can get answers about God stuff, so can you. I'm not someones Guru. I know that my life has improved dramatically in every area since I made the connection. A theory remains until you take the proper steps to prove or disprove it.
You don't need any books at all to have this communication. Don't read the Bible if it gives you trouble. This is just a simple way(prayer) to share your thoughts with someone you don't even know exists yet.
Don't stop because of all the contrary evidence that you find. Men have tried to explain God in every possible way. They have had a particular experience and try to sell the method to everyone else in the world. Hold onto the simplest of ideas. Don't get fooled by the jargon. It's been going on since people learned to talk.
Incidentally, you didn't come close to answering the question I actually posed to you about prayer, either.

People will pray as if God is responsible for everthing that they say. God users will do everthing in their power to get something for this outward show of faith.
Prayer is simply communication. It is not a party line for everyone to hear. The world is filled with phonies who want attention or want to make money off of something supernatural. If you desire to improve your life in any loving way, God will respond. Don't ask for material gain...you will not get it. You will receive the fastest answers if your prayers are requested for the benefit for others. Your own parents would not respond to you if you challenged them. Use some courtesy. He is the giver of love. If you lack in that department, give prayer a try.

[Belac Enrobso]

Except that's not faith: it's a reasonable expectation that the people trained to discover certain things know what they're talking about. Do you have faith in a plumber when you call one to fix your sink, or do you just accept that sometimes you require help from outside sources? Additionally, when a scientist says something, they don't just assert it, they also present their workings, experimental data and often repeatable steps for how the experiment that led them to their conclusions are done. One could find out for themselves with relative ease, so don't even pretend that science and religion are remotely similar.

What you're doing is a little bait and switch, where you're using faith to mean "accepting something you don't know for certain," which is dishonest because nobody ever knows anything for certain; some of us are just brash enough to pretend like they do.
Since as humans, we can not possibly know all of the combinations by which a conclusion can be drawn. Two people can observe the same event and draw two very different conclusions based on their experience. If you have not experienced something similar, you have no disposition to draw the same conclusions. The problem with these debate type forums is that one man is describing his experiences of spirituality while the other works feverishly to vilify his interpretations. Whose experience is more valid, yours or mine. How can I know for assurity that the research you did was really valid at all. I would have to trust that you are not lying to me. I don't deny the genuine things that science has done to improve our world. I could test out the principle and have similar results. You can have the same results I have had with spiritually discerned things. It requires thought and perservearance, the same that the scientists do when trying to analyze a problem. Use the same scientific principle to analyze a possibility for which you have never taken seriously.
Prayer is basically talking to God about things. When you talk to someone do you demand an answer. How about some respect when it comes to this stuff. If God knows that the communication is not genuine, He can see right through it. Most atheists I have talked to don't want to communicate with someone they don't know (a spirtual source).
If I can get answers about God stuff, so can you. I'm not someones Guru. I know that my life has improved dramatically in every area since I made the connection. A theory remains until you take the proper steps to prove or disprove it.
You don't need any books at all to have this communication. Don't read the Bible if it gives you trouble. This is just a simple way(prayer) to share your thoughts with someone you don't even know exists yet.
Don't stop because of all the contrary evidence that you find. Men have tried to explain God in every possible way. They have had a particular experience and try to sell the method to everyone else in the world. Hold onto the simplest of ideas. Don't get fooled by the jargon. It's been going on since people learned to talk.
Incidentally, you didn't come close to answering the question I actually posed to you about prayer, either.

People will pray as if God is responsible for everthing that they say. God users will do everthing in their power to get something for this outward show of faith.
Prayer is simply communication. It is not a party line for everyone to hear. The world is filled with phonies who want attention or want to make money off of something supernatural. If you desire to improve your life in any loving way, God will respond. Don't ask for material gain...you will not get it. You will receive the fastest answers if your prayers are requested for the benefit for others. Your own parents would not respond to you if you challenged them. Use some courtesy. He is the giver of love. If you lack in that department, give prayer a try.

Why good morning their old chap! Would you mine posting any evidence that supports the idea that prayer for others will lead to the benefit of others? I certainly would enjoy considering your idea as truth, but can't until I see evidence for this claim.

[RDK]

Except that's not faith: it's a reasonable expectation that the people trained to discover certain things know what they're talking about. Do you have faith in a plumber when you call one to fix your sink, or do you just accept that sometimes you require help from outside sources? Additionally, when a scientist says something, they don't just assert it, they also present their workings, experimental data and often repeatable steps for how the experiment that led them to their conclusions are done. One could find out for themselves with relative ease, so don't even pretend that science and religion are remotely similar.

What you're doing is a little bait and switch, where you're using faith to mean "accepting something you don't know for certain," which is dishonest because nobody ever knows anything for certain; some of us are just brash enough to pretend like they do.
Since as humans, we can not possibly know all of the combinations by which a conclusion can be drawn. Two people can observe the same event and draw two very different conclusions based on their experience. If you have not experienced something similar, you have no disposition to draw the same conclusions. The problem with these debate type forums is that one man is describing his experiences of spirituality while the other works feverishly to vilify his interpretations. Whose experience is more valid, yours or mine. How can I know for assurity that the research you did was really valid at all. I would have to trust that you are not lying to me. I don't deny the genuine things that science has done to improve our world. I could test out the principle and have similar results. You can have the same results I have had with spiritually discerned things. It requires thought and perservearance, the same that the scientists do when trying to analyze a problem. Use the same scientific principle to analyze a possibility for which you have never taken seriously.
Prayer is basically talking to God about things. When you talk to someone do you demand an answer. How about some respect when it comes to this stuff. If God knows that the communication is not genuine, He can see right through it. Most atheists I have talked to don't want to communicate with someone they don't know (a spirtual source).
If I can get answers about God stuff, so can you. I'm not someones Guru. I know that my life has improved dramatically in every area since I made the connection. A theory remains until you take the proper steps to prove or disprove it.
You don't need any books at all to have this communication. Don't read the Bible if it gives you trouble. This is just a simple way(prayer) to share your thoughts with someone you don't even know exists yet.
Don't stop because of all the contrary evidence that you find. Men have tried to explain God in every possible way. They have had a particular experience and try to sell the method to everyone else in the world. Hold onto the simplest of ideas. Don't get fooled by the jargon. It's been going on since people learned to talk.
Incidentally, you didn't come close to answering the question I actually posed to you about prayer, either.

People will pray as if God is responsible for everthing that they say. God users will do everthing in their power to get something for this outward show of faith.
Prayer is simply communication. It is not a party line for everyone to hear. The world is filled with phonies who want attention or want to make money off of something supernatural. If you desire to improve your life in any loving way, God will respond. Don't ask for material gain...you will not get it. You will receive the fastest answers if your prayers are requested for the benefit for others. Your own parents would not respond to you if you challenged them. Use some courtesy. He is the giver of love. If you lack in that department, give prayer a try.

I thought it might be good to define the term faith. I would rather use " trust". God is actually asking you to trust in the good things that He wants to tell you.
I know that you have heard about a fire breathing God who is always finding fault and who rather kill humanity than be sensitive to them.
Jesus taught things which I have trouble even trying to emulate. If God asks us to love each other, its because He is that way too. You don't kill your own children. You teach them. Jesus did not want us to act out "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. He said it was better to love your enemies than kill them. That's a difficult edict to follow by most of us. Jesus wanted us to be guided by a loving spirit. ANYTHING ELSE is not coming from Him. If you find death and destruction in scripture, it did not come from Jesus. He removed all of the requirements that people thought they had to do to please Him. Instead, He just wants us to be kind to each other. Once done, the miracles can begin.
Really, this stuff is very simple, no formal training needed, just a willing heart!

[Belac Enrobso]

People will pray as if God is responsible for everthing that they say. God users will do everthing in their power to get something for this outward show of faith.
Prayer is simply communication. It is not a party line for everyone to hear. The world is filled with phonies who want attention or want to make money off of something supernatural. If you desire to improve your life in any loving way, God will respond. Don't ask for material gain...you will not get it. You will receive the fastest answers if your prayers are requested for the benefit for others. Your own parents would not respond to you if you challenged them. Use some courtesy. He is the giver of love. If you lack in that department, give prayer a try.

I thought it might be good to define the term faith. I would rather use " trust". God is actually asking you to trust in the good things that He wants to tell you.
I know that you have heard about a fire breathing God who is always finding fault and who rather kill humanity than be sensitive to them.
Jesus taught things which I have trouble even trying to emulate. If God asks us to love each other, its because He is that way too. You don't kill your own children. You teach them. Jesus did not want us to act out "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. He said it was better to love your enemies than kill them. That's a difficult edict to follow by most of us. Jesus wanted us to be guided by a loving spirit. ANYTHING ELSE is not coming from Him. If you find death and destruction in scripture, it did not come from Jesus. He removed all of the requirements that people thought they had to do to please Him. Instead, He just wants us to be kind to each other. Once done, the miracles can begin.
Really, this stuff is very simple, no formal training needed, just a willing heart!

I understand but I can't just roll into something without validating that it is truth!
I made this mistake before! Oh the horror! The horror!
It was me, billy joe, and Ray Cyrus(sweet ass name for a 8 year old kid huh?)
I saw the my preacher as a good man of faith! He preached the gospels to the children and the parents of little old catholicsville! However on one dark and infallible night, the preacher told us he needed help rearranging his collection of marbles in the church basement. Boy was he not screwing around! Yet! Me, Ray Cyrus, and silly joe ( whatever the hell his name was, I can't remember, he soon died of internal bleeding after the "incident"', nobody cared for him after he was gone because he was the only sheltered kid in old catholicsville, so nobody knew him but me because he told me in Sunday school all of the sick stuff his dad used do to him) followed preacher down I. The basement, and what happened... Happened. We were molested, I was only 5, he had toys too, not the kiddie kind either. The rape session soon ended though when preacher plugged willy schmoe a little too hard, as the preacher professed on his knees with eyes at the basement ceiling to God at his loudest voice possible "God, what has happened to my son!" Ray Cyrus and me ran away like two raw cowboys going through a house of hookers to get the hell outta dodge, or in this case, Good old catholicsville. I have never looked back from then and I regret nothing but having unconditional trust and faith in my rather dominant preacher. And it is for this reason that trust and faith do not suffice when going into anything, evidence must be provided to save the skin on your face, because after all evidence would have saved my face during that night with preacher. I still taste it... Ugh.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

Been refraining because there is so much going on that I basically have to comment on every sentence if I want to comment at all. But I can't take this anymore. So here we go.

I thought it might be good to define the term faith. I would rather use " trust".

This two sentences contradict. Are you defining faith or are you substituting faith with a word you like better? It's 2 different things. I don't even know what you mean and we're only at sentence number 2.

God is actually asking you to trust in the good things that He wants to tell you.

What is god? Evidence that he exist. And show me that this is what he asked.

I know that you have heard about a fire breathing God who is always finding fault and who rather kill humanity than be sensitive to them.

I've heard of more than one.

Jesus taught things which I have trouble even trying to emulate. If God asks us to love each other, its because He is that way too.

Baseless statements! Loads of people don't practice what they preach. Which parent tells their child it's ok to lie? But all parents lie to their kids, we know that. Oh and I'm not making a metaphor about god, when I say parents I mean real parents.

You don't kill your own children. You teach them.

Yea? You don't know that. You don't know me. Plenty of children has been killed by their parents. In Sparta, parents inspect their newborns for defects and promptly kill them if they have any. Parents kill children all the time.

And I have no idea what this has to do with god. We aren't god's children. You have parents, you don't discard what they've done for you and call an imaginary being your father, that's just really ungrateful and wrong. Unless your parents tried to kill you, then I guess anything goes at that point.

Jesus did not want us to act out "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. He said it was better to love your enemies than kill them.

Obviously he's wrong, isn't he? If a guy tries to attack me I'm going to fucking try my best to kill him. Love him, you kidding me? If someone kills your children would you love them? Why would I want to live like that? Why can't I hate my enemies to protect people who love me? Jesus sounds really ungrateful.

That's a difficult edict to follow by most of us.

Maybe it's because it's so stupid.

Jesus wanted us to be guided by a loving spirit.

How do you know what Jesus wants? Define "loving spirit", no idea what that means.

ANYTHING ELSE is not coming from Him.

Again with your special knowledge, where did you get this from? How come only you are aware of this and no one else?

If you find death and destruction in scripture, it did not come from Jesus. He removed all of the requirements that people thought they had to do to please Him. Instead, He just wants us to be kind to each other.

How do you know any of this? You are claiming to have some sort of divine knowledge, plenty of people claim the same things but are preaching different things. What makes you real?

Once done, the miracles can begin.

1. How do you know this?
2. Define miracle.

Really, this stuff is very simple, no formal training needed, just a willing heart!

Then I guess if you're willing, you will have no problem answering my questions. I look forward to that.[/quote]

[Fidel_Castronaut]

People will pray as if God is responsible for everthing that they say. God users will do everthing in their power to get something for this outward show of faith.
Prayer is simply communication. It is not a party line for everyone to hear. The world is filled with phonies who want attention or want to make money off of something supernatural. If you desire to improve your life in any loving way, God will respond. Don't ask for material gain...you will not get it. You will receive the fastest answers if your prayers are requested for the benefit for others. Your own parents would not respond to you if you challenged them. Use some courtesy. He is the giver of love. If you lack in that department, give prayer a try.

Gobbledygook.

We have no reason to believe that your version of whatever god it is you worship (whatever a god is) is not just another phony with every other deity that has ever been forwarded.

Simply saying 'pray to get what you want', regardless of the parameters and stipulations placed on it, is a cop out. You're getting others to do the leg work when asked for evidence, and then using an attempt at emotional guilt by adhering to some erroneous assumptions about the characters of people you don't even know (you seem smart enough to work them out, I can't be bothered to dissect line by line).

Prayer is simply a way to allow you to think that your personal ego is speaking back to you. "God I want this, god my friends need help" blah blah. So trite. Such little foresight and disregard for others (how would those prayers impact indirectly on others through multiple regressions?) no but I suppose your version of god had it all figured right? Another cop out.

Nobody here will be impressed by your attestation. Got anything else? Like hard , verifiable evidence? If you don't, don't bother replying please , we have enough unsubstantiated claims on here from other theists already, thanks.

[Tonus]

If God knows the future then every action taken by men is also foreknown. What is prophecy anyway but God's affirmation to us that everything which could be known to happen will happen.

The future does not have to be predetermined for the biblical god to predict that certain things will happen. Since he is a powerful deity able to make people act as he wishes, he can direct circumstances as he pleases. So when the biblical god says "this will happen" the certainty of it is not that he looked ahead and read the next chapter. The certainty is from knowing that he can manipulate events to make sure that it will happen.

There, a simple explanation that allows for god to predict future events without being trapped by fate. Sure, it makes him manipulative and a bit creepy and brings up the question of why someone willing to meddle in people's affairs and take away their freedom on a whim would have required an elaborate plan to deal with the original sin. But those questions are easier to deal with that anything to do with the idea that the future is so static that it can be "read."

[RDK]

This two sentences contradict. Are you defining faith or are you substituting faith with a word you like better? It's 2 different things. I don't even know what you mean and we're only at sentence number 2.

The word faith is rather obscure. Christians use it to keep the notion of God mystical and deep some way. Why not rather make this more simple and define a word with another word. It's what we do to define things.
If all the things that you have seen and heard about
God make you sick, then you are not alone. If I hadn't experienced something good, I would not have come here to risk embarrasement in front of you to share this stuff. I don't have any more respect for organized religion. I went to God directly to find out answers for all of the problems.

What is god? Evidence that he exist. And show me that this is what he asked.

I would like to share with you my interpretation of God. I see Him as the originator of all things. Everything you see around you is made up of His body parts, that way He knows where every part is and how it fits into the grand scheme of things. That includes you and me. We've all been made of all the same stuff, so really, we're all connected. God has a plan for how He will use His body and we are part of everything which happens.

I've heard of more than one.

Baseless statements! Loads of people don't practice what they preach. Which parent tells their child it's ok to lie? But all parents lie to their kids, we know that. Oh and I'm not making a metaphor about god, when I say parents I mean real parents.

I'm not asking you to follow me. If what I am telling you is lies, then just forget about about all that I say. If your life needs improving and you would like some answers it that direction, stay with me. You will find that it is allvery logical and easy to understand.
As far as parenting goes...I don't think that there are very many of you here who are happy in that department. My family life sucked as a kid. I think that is why I have been hard pressed to find some thing better.

Yea? You don't know that. You don't know me. Plenty of children has been killed by their parents. In Sparta, parents inspect their newborns for defects and promptly kill them if they have any. Parents kill children all the time.

And I have no idea what this has to do with god. We aren't god's children. You have parents, you don't discard what they've done for you and call an imaginary being your father, that's just really ungrateful and wrong. Unless your parents tried to kill you, then I guess anything goes at that point.

If you are made of matter, you part of God's family. A new perspective about a creator is a very difficult thing to accept. You have to replace all of the preconceived notions that you have and replace them with new ones. Yhis can't happen quickly. You hyave sought your whole life proving, seeking, and validating the truths that you have. Who am I To devaluate you, it's not my place. You will have to read on and see if what I have found makes any sense or not at all. I don't think that any of you are disinterested in this subject. I'd say many of you have beat the Bible to death trying to make sense out of it.
Frankly speaking, reading the Bible literally wont help you much. You will battle with God's nature as revealed there. The old testament God wants to kill you for your faults, Jesus wants to tell you that He loves you anyway. That's confusing if you ask me. I would not follow a two headed God. Sorry if I have offended many of you Christians. I've read the Bible and became frustrated with it from the start.
Jesus did not carry an old testament around with Him to teach His ideas. He taught concepts that would make sense if you listened long enough.
I do not intend to start some new church or something. There are already too many brand names out already. If the principles that I share make sense, then consider them. As I said, non Of what I say is difficult if you define God's true nature as love. Use that as your common denominator.

Obviously he's wrong, isn't he? If a guy tries to attack me I'm going to fucking try my best to kill him. Love him, you kidding me? If someone kills your children would you love them? Why would I want to live like that? Why can't I hate my enemies to protect people who love me? Jesus sounds really ungrateful.

I know the emotion of hate. It's the first thing that comes to mind if I find something so horribly unjust that I just want to kill it and get it out of the way. Let's redirect hate and see if there is an alternative to vengeance.
There is a rule that I have learned to live by. God wants us all to learn how to love. He will stand by anyone who does. But if someone insists on doing the opposite, there is nothing that God will do to support you. Without His protection, you are out blowing in the wind. I've seen some pretty nasty stuff happen to people as a result of living the vengeance lifestyle. I,ve tried the retaliation stuff before, and it can get pretty dirty.
The eye for an eye mentality will never give you a sense of peace. Once you realize that were all made of the same stuff, we all make the same mistakes etc.,you will eventually see the wisdom of kindness instead of hatred. Love is a constructive force.

Maybe it's because it's so stupid.

It seems stupid since you have not practiced enough of it to see the value in it. Good teachings aren't dead, but you do have to look hard to them.

How do you know what Jesus wants? Define "loving spirit", no idea what that means.

Let me define Love...that method by which harmony is maintained by the actions that you do. There are other ways to say this, but that one works pretty well. Families simply will fail if there is no harmony in them. Besides, love is what you really want anyway. Who wouldn't like better relations with family and friends. Love is just a better choice.

Again with your special knowledge, where did you get this from? How come only you are aware of this and no one else?

I am not the author of these ideas. They can be found elsewhere, but people tend to add a whole lot of un-necessary duties or ordinances to it and call it a religion. I'm not interested in any of that. I first began searching to benefit myself first, and then later realized how helpful it could be for others. That's when the revelations really began to take off. The more I asked God for answers, the more I got.
Ideas are powerful things. They can be used to sucker people in, or they can be used for someones benefit. They seem to be intangible, thats why they are hard to prove until you put them into action. It's the same way with science. Someone concocts a new idea to solve a problem and then the idea is implemented into some physical thing that others can appreciate as well. The idea is intangible, but the results of it are very real. That is the way to understand that God is real. He is willing to give you all some wonderful ideas if you will let Him.

How do you know any of this? You are claiming to have some sort of divine knowledge, plenty of people claim the same things but are preaching different things. What makes you real?

As I said earlier, Nobody gets a license to keep true things to themself. If an idea is good, God will back it up and it will prosper. I don't own any of this. It's yours to keep for free. I want no money or fame from this work. It pleases me immeasurably to see good ideas changing the hearts of angry or sad people. That is the reward. I thought that this was impossible for me to do at first, but this type of payment became more gratifying than money or popularity.

1. How do you know this?
2. Define miracle.

#1 Good ideas make sense right from the start. These concepts were given to me, I did not invent any of this. On my own, I really couldn't figure it out alone. I received most through revelation or vision.

#2 A miracle, like a coincidence, is something that happens against all odds. The chance that it happens ordinarily is nil. I mean that it really should not have happened at all. The situations surrounding them are remarkable. Coincidences happen to many people. It's God's way of trying to get your attention. If something happens to you that doesn't fit your reasoning at the time but is remarkable in every other way, you can know that God just tapped on yor shoulder.

Then I guess if you're willing, you will have no problem answering my questions. I look forward to that.

Concepts that are too simple can be easily be swept under the rug. It's what you do with these ides that prove that they were genuine in the first place.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

Fix your quote tags, you're making it look like I said a lot of things I've never said. Fix it or I'll report your post so a mod can fix it.