Flat Earth and Geocentrism

[Sword of Christ]

At the end of the day, religion likes them stupid and wants them to stay stupid.

Yes because one quote from one man proves this. There are plenty of theologians and philosophers over the thousands of years who applied reason to the question of God.

[Esquilax]

Yes because one quote from one man proves this. There are plenty of theologians and philosophers over the thousands of years who applied reason to the question of God.

And if they didn't come out of that process as an atheist, or at least an agnostic, they failed to be reasonable.

[Sword of Christ]

And if they didn't come out of that process as an atheist, or at least an agnostic, they failed to be reasonable.

No they succeeded to be reasonable and there were people outside of the Christian, Jewish or monotheistic context who managed to do the same thing and draw the same conclusions using the same logic. You can't figure out redemptive atonement from sin through Gods saving grace through reason alone though you still need the Bible to give the juicy info on that.

[Simon Moon]

I love how for century after century, Christians believed the Earth was flat and the Earth was the center of the universe based on these passages in the Bible.

The best Christian scholars took those passages as mostly literal. Then, when it it proven the Earth is a spheroid and is not the center of the universe, those passages that were previously literal, are now considered poetic.

Isn't that convenient?

[ThomM]

There are a number of bible verses that speak of the "foundations" of the earth. A few others suggest that the sun orbits the earth. Does this mean that the bible's authors thought the world was flat and the universe geocentric? Or does foundation here have some other meaning?

If it does imply that the earth is flat...it should pretty much settle any religious argument. Ever.

See:

Psalm 105: 5
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.
[note: this verse has both, an earth with a foundation and a non-moving planet]

Job 38:4
Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand.

Job 38:13
That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Isaiah 48:13
Yea, my hand hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spread out the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.
(the sun doesn't "hurry back" anywhere. the earth rotates on its axis)

Well, Christians??

Surely a supreme being can do better than this

My favorite is in the New Testament - so that the Born Agains cannot use the - we don't use that anymore = excuse

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor

Now - that would ONLY be possible if the earth were flat

Noting that it is not - and the god SHOULD have known that - one cannot see all of the kingdoms mentioned in the bible to that point - because of the curvature of the earth.

But there is another problem with that - the christ or the devil would have had to be the source of the story as relayed by Matthew. THere was no one else there.

The god christ and the devil BOTH should have known this is impossible.
Since the christ is incapable of lying - based on being god - then the devil had to be the source of the story - a good source for the bible

[Sword of Christ]

No-one claims that Bible is a book of science it contains the same amount science as a Bronze Jew would understand as in not very much. The Jewish concept of God would work with the universe as we understand equally as well as the universe as they understood it back then. No God of the gaps involved if the Bible never had anything to do with science.

[Chad32]

No-one claims that Bible is a book of science it contains the same amount science as a Bronze Jew would understand as in not very much. The Jewish concept of God would work with the universe as we understand equally as well as the universe as they understood it back then. No God of the gaps involved if the Bible never had anything to do with science.

Oh, there's still a god of the gaps. Back then people didn't think heaven was a place beyond space and time. They thought it was a physical place above the clouds. We know that lightning doesn't strike because god is throwing thunderbolts, and we know volcanoes don't erupt because a fire god is angry. The whole point of the god of the gaps is that the more we learn about the world, the fewer things deities seems to be responsible for, and the fewer places they are. The only thing it has to do with science is the fact that the scientific method allows us to know more about how the world and universe works.

I'm also pretty sure some people do claim there's scientific stuff in the bible. Of course the bible is such a confusing mess that people can get it to say pretty much whatever they want.

[Minimalist]

At the end of the day, religion likes them stupid and wants them to stay stupid.

Yes because one quote from one man proves this. There are plenty of theologians and philosophers over the thousands of years who applied reason to the question of God.

You really are as dumb as you sound, you know that?

[Esquilax]

No they succeeded to be reasonable and there were people outside of the Christian, Jewish or monotheistic context who managed to do the same thing and draw the same conclusions using the same logic. You can't figure out redemptive atonement from sin through Gods saving grace through reason alone though you still need the Bible to give the juicy info on that.

Okay cool, so if it's so reasonable you'll have no trouble debating me on it, right?

[Bad Wolf]

He's too scared.