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RE: Why Christians Attack Evolution
March 20, 2014 at 7:02 pm
(March 20, 2014 at 6:57 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I have always seen the garden of Eden story as allegorical. It's to explain the human condition, as fallen/ fallible/ etc.. It sets out this central concept behind the faith, in common with many other cultures. I don't think Walton covers this satisfactorily. I'll have to read the book again. If he doesn't, maybe it'll be in the complete work promised. And I think he has other works on later books. Something on the flood I believe.
Me personally, I don't see any importance in an actual Adam. Literalists twist themselves out of shape trying to justify it. I see nothing but fail.
So you don't see a problem with mankind being "fallen" but with no true original sin having occurred? Why was Jesus' sacrifice* necessary then?
*In the loosest of definitions, one cannot pay the ultimate price then respawn three days later and it still count.
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(September 17, 2015 at 4:04 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I make change in the coin tendered. If you want courteous treatment, behave courteously. Preaching at me and calling me immoral is not courteous behavior.
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RE: Why Christians Attack Evolution
March 20, 2014 at 7:10 pm
(March 20, 2014 at 7:02 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote: So you don't see a problem with mankind being "fallen" but with no true original sin having occurred? Why was Jesus' sacrifice* necessary then?
*In the loosest of definitions, one cannot pay the ultimate price then respawn three days later and it still count.
None at all, no. We are all fallen. It's a presupposition. tor has given an example of another presupposition, equally valid.
Jesus is the 2nd Adam. Jesus gets us back into the garden. From our fallen (this is a given) state, we cannot be forgiven/ accepted without assistance. Jesus provides that.
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RE: Why Christians Attack Evolution
March 20, 2014 at 7:25 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2014 at 7:26 pm by Rahul.)
The fact that we are risen apes is not a presupposition. It's factual. Waaaay more valid than the religious idea.
Everything I needed to know about life I learned on Dagobah.
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RE: Why Christians Attack Evolution
March 20, 2014 at 7:26 pm
I'll have to disagree, the presupposition that we have "fallen from grace" is not as valid as the scientific theory of evolution.
Why would a god create us in a state where we need forgiveness?
(September 17, 2015 at 4:04 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I make change in the coin tendered. If you want courteous treatment, behave courteously. Preaching at me and calling me immoral is not courteous behavior.
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RE: Why Christians Attack Evolution
March 20, 2014 at 7:26 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2014 at 7:27 pm by tor.)
(March 20, 2014 at 7:25 pm)Rahul Wrote: The fact that we are risen apes is not a presupposition. It's factual. Waaaay more valid than the religious idea. Yeah frodo FACTUAL! How about that!
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RE: Why Christians Attack Evolution
March 20, 2014 at 8:14 pm
(March 20, 2014 at 7:25 pm)Rahul Wrote: The fact that we are risen apes is not a presupposition. It's factual. Waaaay more valid than the religious idea.
I totally agree. The way you put it, I have absolutely no problem in 100% agreeing with you.
That's nothing to do with the subject tho. Maybe you missed it 
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RE: Why Christians Attack Evolution
March 20, 2014 at 8:15 pm
It's not humans fault that god made them flawed 
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RE: Why Christians Attack Evolution
March 20, 2014 at 8:19 pm
No but honestly my little hobbit (sorry I love LoTR, can't resist  ) why is it that you think we are "fallen" without original sin?
(September 17, 2015 at 4:04 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I make change in the coin tendered. If you want courteous treatment, behave courteously. Preaching at me and calling me immoral is not courteous behavior.
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RE: Why Christians Attack Evolution
March 20, 2014 at 8:25 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2014 at 8:27 pm by *Deidre*.)
(March 20, 2014 at 7:26 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote: I'll have to disagree, the presupposition that we have "fallen from grace" is not as valid as the scientific theory of evolution.
Why would a god create us in a state where we need forgiveness?
I thought you posted "fallen from apes." Wow I need sleep
I think mankind in general, likes to "look up" to idols. I wonder if that is a "survival of the fittest" component? We tend to admire and practically deify athletes, celebrities, government officials, royalty, etc...
It's not unusual that man's version of a god is the ultimate Idol.
Maybe?
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RE: Why Christians Attack Evolution
March 20, 2014 at 8:26 pm
(March 20, 2014 at 7:26 pm)Aral Gamelon Wrote: I'll have to disagree, the presupposition that we have "fallen from grace" is not as valid as the scientific theory of evolution.
Why would a god create us in a state where we need forgiveness?
The idea that we have fallen from grace has zero to do with the material consideration of evolution. From the link, saleability is a consideration of teleology, and evolution materialism.
Teleologically, our fulfillment is achieved through God.
Good can't exist without it's opposite force. Love couldn't be given if hate weren't also possible. The only way we could exist without needs is if there were no good and bad. We need love, and that demands our innocence.
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