"If you're not a Feminist, you're a Sexist"

[DeistPaladin]

Still don't see why keeping men out of the discussion of fighting for their rights or against male oppression, how can you possibly say that fighting for men's rights is feminism or imply it.

Maybe because I've never known any self-described feminists who've said discrimination against or sexual harassment of men is OK. Neither have I known of any who are dismissive of the problem. As I told you earlier, my wife has said domestic violence against men is not taken as seriously as it should be.

You just said that men who worry about rape are basically insecure or whatever ad hominem you used. This is why feminism makes people sexist.

And I stand by the assessment that any man who worries about being raped probably has issues with his sexuality. This has less to do with feminism and more to do with the odds. Please note, I said "man" not "boy" or "child". As a grown man, I figure my odds of being raped in my lifetime are roughly those of being struck by lightning. With women, even if you disagree with "1 in 4", the odds are unfortunately high enough that for her to exercise precautions is rational.

I still don't see how this pertains feminism at all then. It's Egalitarianism.

I'm simply trying to offer possible reasons why the feminists you talked to were dismissive of domestic violence against men, etc. But again, I'd have to know what the conversation was to understand fully.

Well duh right? according to people like you, she must be a feminist, otherwise she's a sexist.

I don't believe I've ever said that. I was offering a possible explanation of what AronRa had said, that there is no "middle ground" depending on your definition.

Try to take a few deep breaths here. Relax.

You for example, have some extreme opinions on how we should mobilize our police force more towards women's crimes, did I get that wrong? since you did say that these crimes happen more to women did you not?

I don't know that mobilization of our police force has been part of this topic, except when I asked how often sexual violence against men happens and is our justice system handling it well enough.

Breathe, dude, breathe. Go to your happy place.

[sven]

You guys in this thread are so lucky you're not Swedish.
I'm not touching this one with a ten foot pole.

[MJ the Skeptical]

Maybe because I've never known any self-described feminists who've said discrimination against or sexual harassment of men is OK. Neither have I known of any who are dismissive of the problem. As I told you earlier, my wife has said domestic violence against men is not taken as seriously as it should be.

You've completely missed the point and this^ sentence is a red herring. I didn't say feminists thought it was okay to discriminate men (even though I've heard them say misandrist things).

The point was that they do not fight for men's rights or against male oppression. Or any other genders oppression for that matter.

And I stand by the assessment that any man who worries about being raped probably has issues with his sexuality.

Then you're being sexist, period.

This has less to do with feminism and more to do with the odds. Please note, I said "man" not "boy" or "child".

Men gets raped as often if not more if you include prison. Glad you ignored that so I could bring it up again.

As a grown man, I figure my odds of being raped in my lifetime are roughly those of being struck by lightning. With women, even if you disagree with "1 in 4", the odds are unfortunately high enough that for her to exercise precautions is rational.

If men don't need to worry very much than neither do women, especially since they get raped fairly equally according to statistics.

I'm simply trying to offer possible reasons why the feminists you talked to were dismissive of domestic violence against men, etc. But again, I'd have to know what the conversation was to understand fully.

What? you said the same crap that they do, you called me a feminist then they bring up how we need to focus on female rape since they think it happens more often, just like you said.

I don't believe I've ever said that. I was offering a possible explanation of what AronRa had said, that there is no "middle ground" depending on your definition.

I already know his explanation, it's an appalling false dichotomy.

Try to take a few deep breaths here. Relax.

What gives you that impression? it's just hard to express emotion and nuance in text form.

I don't know that mobilization of our police force has been part of this topic, except when I asked how often sexual violence against men happens and is our justice system handling it well enough.

The point of my comment was to point out that you think women get raped more. So it only follows you want more money and time to go towards female rape, do you not? this all comes back full circle to feminists not giving a shit about other genders oppression or rights since they don't march for any gender other than women. Just hide under the facade of equality while promoting a certain gender...

Breathe, dude, breathe. Go to your happy place.

I'm good, but thanks for your concern. I still enjoy your replies and posts Paladin.

[Sedna]

Did you purposefully phrase those poll responses terribly?

Anyway, I wouldn't say that not being a feminist means you're sexist. Primarily because I don't think people should be forced to take on the label even if they fit snugly into the definition. But if you do not think that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities , then yes, you are sexist.

[NoraBrimstone]

I just saw this relevant thing:

[CapnAwesome]

There isn't really a single definition of sexist or feminist. So it's a hard question to answer.

[*Deidre*]

I was really surprised to hear atheist youtuber AronRa say this in one of his videos. Personally, I take major issue with his assertion and blanket statement of all those who disagree with his definition of Feminism. I don't consider myself sexist or feminist first of all, so I think that refutes him. I would consider myself Egalitarian (or Equalitarian) and I personally see that as the best label for someone interested in the equal rights of both genders equally instead of Feminism which unfortunately does focus on women.

From what I've heard personally; The feminists I run into tend to laugh at oppression that happens to men, they don't fight along side the men when the men are marginalized like women can be marginalized and the men's oppression is dismissed as patriarchy. But if it was such an obvious patriarchy then why do so many men struggle, fill up prisons at 10:1 ratio over women and almost never get custody of kids... Anyway, just wanted to get the forums thoughts on this quote and topic.

Some female perspective on this would be most appreciated as well.

Please provide examples of when white, heterosexual men have been or are being ...''marginalized''? (in remote comparison to women/homosexuals/men who are not white)

[Coffee Jesus]

I think there's a middle ground if you don't believe women are discriminated against more than men.

So there's three possibilities:
- feminism
- sexism
- ignorance

[CapnAwesome]

Please provide examples of when white, heterosexual men have been or are being ...''marginalized''? (in remote comparison to women/homosexuals/men who are not white)

The only example I can really think of is child custody hearings.

[*Deidre*]

Please provide examples of when white, heterosexual men have been or are being ...''marginalized''? (in remote comparison to women/homosexuals/men who are not white)

The only example I can really think of is child custody hearings.

While sad, these are individual cases, not a remote comparison to women not being permitted to vote at one point, for example. As a gender.

African american men and women at one point, weren't permitted to attend (by law) schools that white kids attended.

Gay people have just recently received the right to legally marry in some parts of the US, and other countries.

Making fun of men on sitcoms, or men not winning their custody battles, is not remotely comparable to these other examples that I've provided.

I don't like to see anyone marginalized, but it's very insulting and dismissive to remotely equate it to legit, historical civil rights issues.

I'm not a feminist, btw.