Christian Logic

[RobbyPants]

Christian Logic:

Christian: "Free will exists so God can know if we love him. That is what explains suffering."

Atheist: "But don't people in heaven love God without sin and suffering? Why does God need to test us?"

Christian: "We can't know the mind of God! He is infinite and we are not!"

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Christian Logic:

Anything morally good we do and any impressive works we achieve are done because of the grace of God and because God willed it. Anytime we fall short or are bad, it is due to our own sinful nature.

Also, God didn't put that nature there. He just set the balls in motion, but it's still totally our fault.

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Edit: Hell, all of them could really be summed up with this:

[Confused Ape]

Larger point: Christianity is so widespread and diverse, having been a synchratic faith to begin with (it was born borrowing from here and a bit there, and...) that any statement beginning with "Christians believe..." is certain to invite a response from a self-described "Christian" who rejects that idea.

Good point.

I mean, there are even self-described "atheist Christians".

Yes, "atheist Christians."

Really, I've actually known a few.

No, I don't get it either but there you go.

I didn't know about them and just looked them up on wikipedia. Some of them are atheists who still believe that Jesus was a wise teacher but I'm baffled by -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_a..._existence

Thomas J. J. Altizer is a well-known Christian atheist who is known for his literal approach to the death of God. He often speaks of God's death as a redemptive event. In his book The Gospel of Christian Atheism he speaks of how

"every man today who is open to experience knows that God is absent, but only the Christian knows that God is dead, that the death of God is a final and irrevocable event, and that God's death has actualized in our history a new and liberated humanity".[4]

I'm not sure how people can be atheists if they believe that God used to exist but is now dead.

[DeistPaladin]

I didn't know about them and just looked them up on wikipedia. Some of them are atheists who still believe that Jesus was a wise teacher but I'm baffled by -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_a..._existence

Thomas J. J. Altizer is a well-known Christian atheist who is known for his literal approach to the death of God. He often speaks of God's death as a redemptive event. In his book The Gospel of Christian Atheism he speaks of how

"every man today who is open to experience knows that God is absent, but only the Christian knows that God is dead, that the death of God is a final and irrevocable event, and that God's death has actualized in our history a new and liberated humanity".[4]

I'm not sure how people can be atheists if they believe that God used to exist but is now dead.

Wow, that's even more elaborate than the ones I knew. The self-described "atheist Christians" that I knew were people who rejected the idea of a god or afterlife but nonetheless considered themselves followers of the "wise teachings of Jesus".

On the surface, given our cultures reverence for and rose-colored glasses view of Jesus, this seems reasonable enough. Maybe they liked the parts about "love thy neighbor" and "do unto others..." but they might not regard themselves as devotees of Jesus if they bothered to read the rest. After all, a substantial part of Jesus' teachings are about devotion to his father god and salvation from Hell. Another significant part are unfeasible teachings like his outlandishly extreme pacifism and poverty.

My suggestion, were I to meet an atheist Christian today, would be to read the Gospels with a critical eye before embracing the teachings of Jesus. The few wise things he did preach were not original and the rest, to put it kindly, wasn't that great.

[truthBtold]

Christian and logic can not be in the same sentence.. doesnt make sense!!

[Bob Kelso]

Christian Logic

Christian what now?

[Lek]

I didn't know about them and just looked them up on wikipedia. Some of them are atheists who still believe that Jesus was a wise teacher but I'm baffled by -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_a..._existence


I'm not sure how people can be atheists if they believe that God used to exist but is now dead.

Wow, that's even more elaborate than the ones I knew. The self-described "atheist Christians" that I knew were people who rejected the idea of a god or afterlife but nonetheless considered themselves followers of the "wise teachings of Jesus".

On the surface, given our cultures reverence for and rose-colored glasses view of Jesus, this seems reasonable enough. Maybe they liked the parts about "love thy neighbor" and "do unto others..." but they might not regard themselves as devotees of Jesus if they bothered to read the rest. After all, a substantial part of Jesus' teachings are about devotion to his father god and salvation from Hell. Another significant part are unfeasible teachings like his outlandishly extreme pacifism and poverty.

My suggestion, were I to meet an atheist Christian today, would be to read the Gospels with a critical eye before embracing the teachings of Jesus. The few wise things he did preach were not original and the rest, to put it kindly, wasn't that great.

Christians and atheists are alike in that they have numerous differing opinions among themselves. One thing that means is that people think for themselves. If you read the bible you find there are certain passages that are very clear and easy to intrepret while others are less distinct. In Romans 10:9 Paul wrote "if you confess with your mouth the lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." That's what distinguishes a Christian from a non-christian - our belief in Jesus as our savior and the son of God. A "christian atheist" is not a christian. Jesus never said you must interpret all the scriptures in the same exact way in order to be saved. There are correct and incorrect interpretations for every verse in the bible and the more you study it, the more the Holy Spirit will show you. It wasn't meant to be easy.

[Jacob(smooth)]

Sigh.

Yeah, Christians R dum.

Feel better about yourself now?

[Confused Ape]

Christians and atheists are alike in that they have numerous differing opinions among themselves. One thing that means is that people think for themselves. If you read the bible you find there are certain passages that are very clear and easy to intrepret while others are less distinct.

That's what distinguishes a Christian from a non-christian - our belief in Jesus as our savior and the son of God. A "christian atheist" is not a christian.

Christian atheists must have thought for themselves when they came up with their own theology. There are some Christians who don't regard Roman Catholics, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses as Christians.

Is Roman Catholicism and Christianity the same thing?

No, Roman Catholicism and Christianity are not the same thing. Christianity is properly defined by certain doctrines that are revealed in the Bible. It is not defined by simply saying that as long as you believe in Jesus, you're a Christian. Mormons believe in Jesus, but their Jesus is a brother of the devil in the pre-existence. The Jesus of the Jehovah's Witnesses is Michael the Archangel. So, just saying you believe in Jesus doesn't make you a Christian. This is why the Bible tells us who Jesus really is, God in flesh, creator of the universe. Likewise, there are essential doctrines, and if any of those essential doctrines are violated, then a church would only appear to be Christian but not really be Christian.

Jesus never said you must interpret all the scriptures in the same exact way in order to be saved. There are correct and incorrect interpretations for every verse in the bible and the more you study it, the more the Holy Spirit will show you. It wasn't meant to be easy.

I've done Bible studies with Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. Missionaries from both told me that if I prayed to God and really listened he would tell me that Mormons/Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth. This suggests that the Holy Spirit must be very confused over those less distinct passages. Maybe it's just as well that Jesus didn't insist that all the scriptures have to be interpreted in the same exact way.

[Lek]

Christians and atheists are alike in that they have numerous differing opinions among themselves. One thing that means is that people think for themselves. If you read the bible you find there are certain passages that are very clear and easy to intrepret while others are less distinct.

That's what distinguishes a Christian from a non-christian - our belief in Jesus as our savior and the son of God. A "christian atheist" is not a christian.

Christian atheists must have thought for themselves when they came up with their own theology. There are some Christians who don't regard Roman Catholics, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses as Christians.

Is Roman Catholicism and Christianity the same thing?

No, Roman Catholicism and Christianity are not the same thing. Christianity is properly defined by certain doctrines that are revealed in the Bible. It is not defined by simply saying that as long as you believe in Jesus, you're a Christian. Mormons believe in Jesus, but their Jesus is a brother of the devil in the pre-existence. The Jesus of the Jehovah's Witnesses is Michael the Archangel. So, just saying you believe in Jesus doesn't make you a Christian. This is why the Bible tells us who Jesus really is, God in flesh, creator of the universe. Likewise, there are essential doctrines, and if any of those essential doctrines are violated, then a church would only appear to be Christian but not really be Christian.

Jesus never said you must interpret all the scriptures in the same exact way in order to be saved. There are correct and incorrect interpretations for every verse in the bible and the more you study it, the more the Holy Spirit will show you. It wasn't meant to be easy.

I've done Bible studies with Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. Missionaries from both told me that if I prayed to God and really listened he would tell me that Mormons/Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth. This suggests that the Holy Spirit must be very confused over those less distinct passages. Maybe it's just as well that Jesus didn't insist that all the scriptures have to be interpreted in the same exact way.

Roman catholics and protestants disagree over numerous points of doctrine, but if a catholic and a protestant both believe that Jesus is the son of God and have faith that he is their savior, that is what makes them both christians. The bible nowhere even remotely says that Jesus is the brother of the devil or is Michael the archangel. If that is someone's belief, I would question whether or not he or she is a christian. Of course I can't get into their heads and hearts. I can state what I feel, but I can't determine the true state of any other person.

To Jacob: Atheists are dumb too. Nah nah nah nah nah nah!

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I recently ran across a truly stunning example of Christian 'logic'. I quote it here in full:

Christians and atheists are alike in that they have numerous differing opinions among themselves. One thing that means is that people think for themselves. If you read the bible you find there are certain passages that are very clear and easy to intrepret while others are less distinct. In Romans 10:9 Paul wrote "if you confess with your mouth the lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." That's what distinguishes a Christian from a non-christian - our belief in Jesus as our savior and the son of God. A "christian atheist" is not a christian. Jesus never said you must interpret all the scriptures in the same exact way in order to be saved. There are correct and incorrect interpretations for every verse in the bible and the more you study it, the more the Holy Spirit will show you. It wasn't meant to be easy.

Boru