Evidence God Exists

[Zen Badger]

Further to my previous post, our time of dominance on Earth is such a infinestimally tiny part of the whole of Lifes tenure on this planet

that if you marked it on a clock you would not even be able to see it.

So what was your god doing the rest of the time?

[KichigaiNeko]

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[quote='lukec' pid='66687' dateline='1272256043']
Alrighty- Ok Angel, I too am coming late to this, sorry about that- what evidence do you have of a God, OTHER than the Bible? Was that stated in here?

Humans are intelligent and rule the world = God exists.

He's been shown countless examples of how this isn't the case and he's ignored them and called everyone naive youngsters.

That's the gist of it.

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And Tav, as well as others, have denied we have control of the world, with juvenile, sci-fi arguments like: bacteria really rule the world, and rodents can chew through metal. Might as well properly brief the guy.

Fact is ATM; you, me and EVERYTHING on this rock depends on 'bacteria'. Hominids forget that we are a "walking bag o' bugs". Why do you think "Shit Happens" is so funny? In fact, next time you have bout of diarrhoea or constipation see how "sci-fi" bacteria are and how quickly your god will come to your rescue. I'm afraid that there is nothing naive / sci-fi about bacteria, fungi, mycoplasma sp, viruses, phytoplankton and algae 'ruling the planet'. Or does you god make you immune from the 'common cold'?

Have you really looked at Rodents?? As in Rattus Rattus? Cheeky lil buggers with teeth that MUST be worn down ... don't know about the 'metal' but I wouldn't put it past them.

Rodent
Rodents' incisors grow continuously throughout their lives, a process known as aradicular. Unlike humans whose ameloblasts die after tooth development, rodents continually produce enamel and must wear down their teeth by gnawing on various materials.[4] These teeth are used for cutting wood, biting through the skin of fruit, or for defense. The teeth have enamel on the outside and exposed dentin on the inside, so they self-sharpen during gnawing. On the other hand, continually growing molars are found in some rodent species, such as the sibling vole and the guinea pig.[5][6] There is variation in the dentition of the rodents, but generally, rodents lack canines and premolars, and have a space between their incisors and molars, called the diastema region

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_rat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_rat#N..._etymology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_Policing_Unit

[AngelThMan]

Ok cool so your evidence, right or wrong, is that humans are now the dominant species?

But this could also have occurred through evolution so... how is this evidence for god?

As a theistic evolutionist, I believe in God as well as evolution. While evolution alone can explain our intelligence to the degree of survival (as in early man), it cannot explain intelligence to the degree that it ultimately developed into (as in modern man). Since everything that happens in evolution is geared towards the survival of a species, then how is sapient and sentient intelligence necessary for our survival? In other words, how is the ability to develop art, science, technology, etc. an evolutionary necessity? Other primates have survived without it, as did early man.

So how is this evidence God exists? To be able to gauge my theory, you need to consider all these different points at once...

1. We are the only species equipped with this special intelligence. If sapient and sentient intelligence were just a result of evolution, why didn't at least 1 other of the millions of species on this earth, including close primates, develop it?

2. We are the only species provided with dexterous opposable thumbs.

3. The above features affords us an incredible advantage over all other species (i.e. we enjoy dominion on the planet).

4. We are the only species that can follow God, and are therefore given the above advantages.

5. What I've outlined here corroborates the bible's assertion that God created man in his image, and that animals are inferior. (It's important to note that these things were written in the bible in completely different contexts. In other words, no one was using them to prove that because we have intelligence there's a God.)

6. The Neanderthal is extinct, perhaps another sign we are the only species meant to have our brand of intelligence.

If you consider all these points, you may be able to detect an intelligent design.

[Paul the Human]

As a theistic evolutionist, I believe in God as well as evolution.

And that is why you see man's superiority as evidence of the existence of god. You already believe the claim that god exists. You are going into it with a presupposed conclusion and forcing facts to fit that conclusion. That is the problem. Your logic is circular.

[Violet]

Look everyone! I have the best evidence yet that God exists!

Monster carrot = proof



(in response to the shoutbox, im not being serious.)

[Minimalist]

Since everything that happens in evolution is geared towards the survival of a species

,


Here is your first problem. Evolution, in the Darwinian sense, was impacted ( many might say "interfered with" by the development of human culture or at least a sense of group identity ). We have evidence of Homo Erectus surviving serious injuries (i.e., broken legs). This means that other members of the group must have cared for them. You do not see this in the animal world. Lions are pack hunters but if a lion is injured in a hunt it either lives or dies on its own. The rest of the pack does not tend its wounds. A second example of human culture is in breeding itself. In much of the animal kingdom males are forced into dominance rituals to win the right to mate. The female will not accept a loser ( unlike in human society when they seem to prefer losers!). This assures that only the dominant traits are passed along.
The point is that all of this far precedes any hint of religion in human minds....we had not yet gotten around to creating "gods" (including yours) yet. That came much later.

Evolution by natural selection only works when it is "natural." Once you start introducing other factors into it you lose the "natural" part.

http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo/homo_2.htm

Homo erectus were very successful in creating cultural technologies that allowed them to adapt to new environmental opportunities. They were true pioneers in developing human culture and in moving out of Africa to populate tropical and subtropical zones elsewhere in the Old World. This territorial expansion most likely began around 1.8-1.7 million years ago, coinciding with progressively cooler global temperatures. Surprisingly, however, Homo erectus remained little changed anatomically until about 800,000-700,000 years ago. After that time, there apparently were evolutionary developments in features of the head that would become characteristic of modern humans. By half a million years ago, some Homo erectus were able to move into the seasonally cold temperate zones of Asia and Europe. This migration was made possible by greater intelligence and new cultural technologies, probably including better hunting skills and the ability to create fire.

This whole subject is in a state of flux much as a result of the Human and Neanderthal genome projects. What we really need is Homo Erectus dna for study.

[Shinylight]

2. We are the only species provided opposable thumbs.

Many species have opposable thumbs, most simian species do. Homo Habilis was the first species to develop fully prehensile thumbs.

4. We are the only species that can follow God, and are therefore given the above advantages.

You cannot rule out the possibility of another species believing in a God.

[Atheist_named_Christian]

So you basically mean that the species that can make the longest list with their specialities may chose the right god?
The Winner is:
The Platypus (result may be different depending on your personal taste)

Sorry, but just having opposable thumbs doesn't make us divine.

[tavarish]

Ok cool so your evidence, right or wrong, is that humans are now the dominant species?

But this could also have occurred through evolution so... how is this evidence for god?

As a theistic evolutionist, I believe in God as well as evolution. While evolution alone can explain our intelligence to the degree of survival (as in early man), it cannot explain intelligence to the degree that it ultimately developed into (as in modern man).

Then you have no idea how evolution works and obviously don't understand how qualities of intelligence can be beneficial for the survival of a species. Not every variation is some thing detrimental or beneficial. Some developments are very much formed as a byproduct of an increasing brainmass and a better understanding of concepts such as consciousness and community.

Since everything that happens in evolution is geared towards the survival of a species, then how is sapient and sentient intelligence necessary for our survival? In other words, how is the ability to develop art, science, technology, etc. an evolutionary necessity? Other primates have survived without it, as did early man.

I addressed this long, long ago, at the start of this thread.

So how is this evidence God exists? To be able to gauge my theory, you need to consider all these different points at once...

That's not how you "gauge" theories. You need to approach each facet on its own, and see how it ties in with the rest. You can't mash everything together and hope it fits - that's not how science works.

1. We are the only species equipped with this special intelligence. If sapient and sentient intelligence were just a result of evolution, why didn't at least 1 other of the millions of species on this earth, including close primates, develop it?

MANY other species have varying degrees of intelligence. The reason others didn't develop it is because their environments did not demands it. Different environment = different rules of survival. It seems you can't understand that for speciation to happen, there HAVE to be specific traits and changes to the genetic code. Every single species on the planet is unique and has unique traits that distinguish it from every other thing.

2. We are the only species provided opposable thumbs.

Which is flat out wrong.

Most primates (humans, apes, and Old World monkeys) and some other animals have opposable thumbs. Humans can move their thumb farther across their hand than any other primate.

http://www3.nsta.org/main/news/stories/s...y_ID=49036

It also has a nice paragraph about how thumbs are adaptations, and not "provided" to us.

3. The above features affords us an incredible advantage over all other species (i.e. we enjoy dominion on the planet).

This has been convered extensively and yet you still stick your head in the sand and try to regurgitate the same tired argument.

Do we have dominion over microorganisms? Weather? How about meteor strike?

4. We are the only species that can follow God, and are therefore given the above advantages.

We are also the only species that has demonstrated to believe that a Sun God is responsible for rain, and demands blood sacrifice. Does that make the Sun God real?

5. What I've outlined here corroborates the bible's assertion that God created man in his image, and that animals are inferior. (It's important to note that these things were written in the bible in completely different contexts. In other words, no one was using them to prove that because we have intelligence there's a God.)

And this is why you can't be called an evolutionist, as there is no ladder. It's not a final product we've reached as a species, there is no "superior", as you're not applying the term to anything and just putting it out there like it means anything. We are evolving as we speak.

Second, saying "we are the only species that can follow God" then going on to say "it corroborates the bible's assertion that man is made in God's image" is circular reasoning. You make a broken assumption that he exists, then build upon that assumption with a self-validating book that asserts he exists. There's no verification involved.

Humans are intelligent because God exists because it's stated in the Bible because only humans can follow God because humans are intelligent...

and round and round...

6. The Neanderthal is extinct, perhaps another sign we are the only species meant to have our brand of intelligence.

The dodo is extinct, perhaps that's a sign that God didn't like dodos.

If you consider all these points, you may be able to detect an intelligent design.

The only thing I detect is a bunch of circular reasoning bullshit.

[Minimalist]

Sorry, but just having opposable thumbs doesn't make us divine.

But it enables jerking off....which is.