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RE: Self-evident truth is a thing
May 19, 2014 at 4:12 am
Avodaiah, in your OP, you made the following statement:
'These are mathematical and logical laws, laws that we know because it would be completely impossible for them to be any other way, and the kind of truths that the scientific method itself is based on.'
I read the entire threat pretty carefully, and I notice that you haven't posted the maths you say exist which would support KCA.
There are some spectacularly bright people associated with this board. I'm sure that, if you could put your argument in the mathematical form you say is the basis for it, the people here would be able to judge the argument itself, not simply your assertion that it MUST be true.
So please trot out the maths, we'll have a look at them and let you know the verdict.
Boru
addendum: When I say 'spectacularly bright people', I do not number myself among them when it comes to mathematics. In fact, I have a tough time counting to 21 unless I'm naked.
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Self-evident truth is a thing
May 19, 2014 at 5:17 pm
I am currently overwhelmed by the long, intricate series of mathematical formulae that Avodaiah has neglected to post in support of KCA.
This is too much for me (I was a history major, fer chrissakes). Could one of you who is more mathematically inclined evaluate what hasn't been posted and explain it to me?
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Self-evident truth is a thing
May 19, 2014 at 8:35 pm
(This post was last modified: May 19, 2014 at 8:37 pm by Chas.)
(May 8, 2014 at 10:03 pm)Avodaiah Wrote: (May 8, 2014 at 9:49 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: I see no reason not to think that the whole of existence is not an eternally-working process. If cause must precede effect, then there cannot logically be a single starting point of everything. To assert so is to force a logical argument to contradict its own logic.
That's the whole point, Ryan. There can't be a single starting point of everything unless who/whatever started it does not change and exists outside of time.
But it's impossible for anything that exists solely within this universe to go infinitely back in time, since everything in the universe is moving. Beginning is a necessary part of motion. Sorry to borrow from Thunderf00t, but saying motion has no beginning is like saying circles are not round.
Those are baseless assertions - they are not self-evident.
I don't know how, or even if, the universe began, and neither do you.
The Kalam argument doesn't prove anything, so there's that.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: Self-evident truth is a thing
May 19, 2014 at 8:43 pm
(May 19, 2014 at 2:14 am)Losty Wrote: Ok, so I'm not super sciency.
You make up for it by being super spellery.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Self-evident truth is a thing
May 24, 2014 at 8:29 am
(This post was last modified: May 24, 2014 at 8:30 am by archangle.)
Like all lines of logic, start at the beginning.
".... nothing can never equal something (which is why everything that has a beginning has a cause) and that anything that moves has a starting point ..." Brains and big bang fit this. But that doesn't preclude us from looking for something that came from nothing. But I must admit, I am not a "nothing guy" so my slant may be skewed. But it also does nit precluded the fact that "god" could have been started with this universe. Nor does it matter that many universe can mean many gods. All wrap up in a bigger thingies. So work with where we are now until such time we can answer "before".
