Pro-life atheists

[*Deidre*]

Well, this gets a bit sticky when for example, a woman is not on birth control, doesn't tell the dude she's sleeping with that little piece of info, gets pregnant, and expects the guy to pay child support until the kid is 18.

In such cases, then the women wants the guy to be responsible. Well, if you leave the man out of your decision to abort a baby, then you need to leave him out of your decision to have a baby, if you didn't take precautions against having a baby to begin with.

As women, we can't expect to have our cake and eat it too.

Ohh if only more women think like you.

I look at it like no one is holding a gun to anyone's head to fuck. If you're in a situation where you are not on bc (as a woman) and the guy you're with doesn't have protection, might be best to not fuck that night if you don't want to incur the possibility of an unwanted pregnancy. Pretty simple. There are other activities which can be quite satisfying too that fall short of intercourse.

If a couple isn't using bc, of any form, they shouldn't be shocked at the potential consequences of having sex. (Of course, this excludes rape and other scenarios whereby a woman might find herself dealing with an unwanted pregnancy)

I'm for keeping abortion safe and legal but I'm for educating women and men on the precautions to preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

[Chad32]

Yeah, I'm definitely against abstinence only education. It demonstrably does not work.

[*Deidre*]

Me too. But if you have to skip fucking for a night because you don't have bc protection, that's the easier choice. Always easier to be proactive than reactive. Abortion is nothing but a reactive method. (Again, we are not or Im not talking about rape situations)

Going to the analogy someone stated about a tire not being a potential car. lol A fetus grows into a human being. By itself no, it can't exist, but a baby outside of the womb can't survive either. Fully grown babies that are born, still need adult assistance to flourish and grow. (and not die)

That said, a tire can't grow into a car. A fetus grows. We were all once fetuses. Lol I'm not against being pro choice, but give analogies that make sense.

[KUSA]

I don't know why more fetuses don't just take matters in there own hands. Here's a couple of pics of me in the womb.

[Heywood]

Negative Losty,

A fetus by itself is a human being....not a potential human being...but an actual one.

My exact reason for saying person and not human being. Reading comprehension love

I already knew you were going to say that, that is why I didn't say human being. You see, to be a human being
Human- of human DNA
Being- a real or imaginary living creature
Easy

To be a person requires sentience.

I was going to comment on your reading comprehension but decided to refrain.....out of politeness. If you go back an look at our exchange you will see I made a point about "human beings"...then you tried to refute that point by talking about "persons". You are guilty of poor reading comprehension at best....or purposely changing the goal posts at worst.

---

A sperm is as much a potential human being as a tire is a potential car. A tire by itself has no potential to be a car and a sperm by itself has no potential to be a human being. Claims that masturbation kills future human beings are rubbish.

Eh, it's no more or less rubbish than lots of other religious claims. My point is that the line is drawn at a point that is very convenient for men, which is not surprising in male-dominated societies.

---

And parenthood is a lifetime job genius not a 18 year old one.

You seem to have completely missed the point. Where in my post did I state or imply anything about parenthood?

They don't draw the line conveniently. They draw the line where the rules of the universe put it. A human being....comes into existence at conception.

[Ryantology]

This post means to say that providing food and medicine for children is not the goal of the pro-life movement.

I know.

But, that's not 'pro-life'. That's 'pro-birth'.

If anything, preventing our children from being born is showing disrespect for the sanctity of human life.

Forcing them to be born and then refusing to do anything to help them indicates that a respect for life is an excuse to force births, and not an actual concern of its own in any way.

God wouldn't come down and give me orders like that.

Your Bible has a very poignant example of God doing exactly that.

[Esquilax]

They don't draw the line conveniently. They draw the line where the rules of the universe put it. A human being....comes into existence at conception.

That's a nice assertion you've got there. Unfortunately, scientific facts seem to disagree with it.

Pretty sure the factual case is more persuasive than "some guy on a forum sez so."

[Losty]

By your own logic, a fetus by itself has no potential to be a person. Thanks have a nice day.

How did you get that from what Losty said? I mean yes, if left literally by itsself, a fetus will die. A baby would too. That's not what Losty meant, and you know it.

I am Losty so I'm assuming you meant Heywood. I know exactly what he meant. Maybe you're having a hard time understanding what I meant.
A baby and a car are on the same level. If you don't feed a baby it will die. If you don't give a car gas it will die.

A fetus and a tire are on the same level. A tire can never become a car on its own, a fetus can never become a baby in its own.

---

My exact reason for saying person and not human being. Reading comprehension love

I already knew you were going to say that, that is why I didn't say human being. You see, to be a human being
Human- of human DNA
Being- a real or imaginary living creature
Easy

To be a person requires sentience.

I was going to comment on your reading comprehension but decided to refrain.....out of politeness. If you go back an look at our exchange you will see I made a point about "human beings"...then you tried to refute that point by talking about "persons". You are guilty of poor reading comprehension at best....or purposely changing the goal posts at worst.

Wait what?
You said a tire cannot be a car on its own.
A sperm cannot be a human being on its own.

I said by the same logic, a fetus cannot be a person on its own.

Tire->car
Sperm->human being
Fetus->person

I didn't change the goal posts. I took your logic and applied it to a different situation. I'm pretty sure the goal posts were abortion right?

I can take the same logic and say
An apple cannot be an orchard on its own.

This has nothing to do with goal posts. I was just taking your logic an applying it to a different situation. Where is your brain at today love?


Also on a side note, unlike the tire/car, fetus/person, and apple/orchard a sperm is just as much a human being as a fetus is. It meets the requirements.
Human-of human DNA
Being-a real or imaginary living creature
If a fetus is a human being, then a sperm is a human being. I don't know why our goal posts are human beings, though, if we are talking about abortion. I don't have any problem with killing Human Beings so long as they're not people.

[Chad32]

Sorry for mixing up the names. A fetus and a tire are not on the same level. One is currently growing into a fully formed human. The other is not currently growing into a car.

Human dna does not equal human being. A human arm doesn't equal a human being, despite having human dna.

[Esquilax]

Sorry for mixing up the names. A fetus and a tire are not on the same level. One is currently growing into a fully formed human. The other is not currently growing into a car.

Actually, a fetus independent of anything else, as we've confirmed we're discussing, isn't growing at all. It's most likely dead. Just as a tire, independent at a minimum a person to construct the car, also isn't doing anything. For both to reach the level of human/car, they need outside interference from at least one person. The equivalency stands.