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Pseudo-Atheism, this one is for you...
#1
Pseudo-Atheism, this one is for you...
As sure as the sky is blue, we could agree that being atheist is quite the extraordinary thought process. Atheism is not just a lack of belief but it should also be a well calculated and thought out thought process. Atheism should not be "I don't believe in God (gods)." Atheism is a schema and should always be "I don't believe in God (god's) because if-then." Atheism is not a product of its own, it is a product of skepticism, rational, and reason. Without these, what I would call, three pillars of atheism, atheism would cease to be.

Before I carry on as to why I see things this way, it's important to know what drives the idea. Yesterday, I went to church. I am predominantly an English speaker, but due to my family, I had attended a non-denominational Spanish speaking congregation. My intention was to go with them since Walmart was close by The Rock Church. My family continued to call the church "La Roca" which makes sense because The Rock Church has Spanish speaking services and it would make sense to use that translation. But little known to me, there is another church under the legal name La Roca, and before I knew it, we missed the exit to The Rock and traveled 15 minutes further to La Roca which was no where near a Walmart. So, consequently, I genuinely went to church.

As I entered La Roca, it was quickly apparent that the entire office building (which is what they utilized) was filled with loud joyful music. My heart was instantly filled with apprehension as my religious experiences of times past became to resurface with each new measure of music. We quickly continued to walk down the corridor and entered the assembly room where I was greeted by a kind man who welcomed us in.

It had immediately dawned on me, as we entered the large assembly room, that I had no idea what this congregation was all about. Were they apostolic? Lutheran? Pentecostal? Some strange congregation hellbent on baptism and faith healing? With each new speculation, and as the music became apparently louder, there was slight panic and I had the urge to quickly coerce my family to sit in the farthest rows possible so that it would be impossible, that, if by any unfortunate circumstance, I was called to the stage and required to play "I found god by the holy power of the preacher." Unfortunately, my efforts were in vain, and my family quickly rushed me to the center third row.

At this point, I sincerely regret going with my family. Anxiety was high and I could feel myself shaking and working up a sweat. I was sure that I was going to soon explode with a storm of angst and fury.

As I continued to stand among the crowd, who's majority had their hands raised as if to grasp the hand of God and save themselves from life's hardships, I looked to find a way to self soothe. Naturally, as a musician, I decided to concentrate on the music, no matter how nonsensical the lyrics were. At first, this was incredibly difficult, but as the drummer began his solo, I was now distracted. How beautifully talented this drummer was! His style and ambition for the beat was quite motivating and I was zoned in. Shortly after, the guitarist, who I had been disappointed with, started a wonderful solo of his own. Damn, was he finally sounding good! Finally I shifted to the pianist, the musician that I would identify most with, and was let down since most of his piece was harmonic and had to deal with rhythm, but that's pretty usual in a band setting.

Before long, I was forced to find myself focusing on the singers. The bright red and blue stage lights shined on them and a projector flashed glorious images of the earth and the captions to the words they were singing. The first thing I noticed was that the blue light had cast a shadow on one of the singers and it made it look like she pissed herself, I couldn't help but chuckle to myself. I then noticed that all the singers had their hands raised and their eyes closed, as if to treat their crowd pleasing music like the prayerful hymns of old. I thought this to be rather fake and pretentious and started to hate the way they looked on the stage and hate to think that they thought that their lyrics actually meant something literal. But my hostile attitude was quickly softened when the lead singer sang his solo. Regardless of the ridiculous lyrics, this guy was great! I thought this guy truly deserved to go mainstream, his voice was absolutely fantastic, perfect pitch and all.

As my angst, anxiety, and disgust started to dwindle, I forced myself to take a second look at the singers. Luckily, they were also aesthetically pleasing. The guy was handsome, the two girls in the middle were beautiful, and the woman on the end had a wonderful motherly look to her. Then I noticed the guitarist, who was in his youth, and reminded me of when I was younger, embarking on talents of my own. Then the pianist, who I noticed was also the lead for the whole production, and remembered how I had conducted music back when I was apart of the Mormon Church. The drummer also reminded me of a friend with the same style and rhythm-atic precision. Well, I must say, though their beliefs pain me, there anthropological resemblance did not. In fact, they were also pbviously human and I emphasize with them.

Once I had come to the terms with the extremely important characteristic of empathy, they then had three young ladies perform a dance on stage. Surprisingly, the music they interpreted was not so nauseating and they incorporated both modern and ballet dance into their choreography. It was a very good performance. I am no expert, but well versed in the classical arts to know that these girls were pretty brave to perform such techniques in front of so many people, especially when it was apparent that they were not prodigies. But nevertheless, the performance was pleasing and I hoped that they would hopefully pursue such talents, disregarding their technical mistakes.

The preacher soon came on stage, dressed stylish, and caring a youthful, charismatic personality with him. Good guy and great speaker! He was definitely a great story teller and conversationalist.

Though their belief system is silly, their guilt and fears superstitious, and their book inconclusive, two things was entirely certain: they were beautiful humans with very good talents, though they may be channeled through an unfortunate medium.

One may ask, what does this have to do with pseudo-atheism? What are you to tell me next, conversion?

No, I was certainly not converted, but this has everything to due with pseudo-atheism. In the light of "new atheism," many people flock towards the writings of public persons such as Hitchens, Dawkins, and Russel, and subsequently indulge in intellectual blindness and a false sense of rational. Unforgivably, these individuals often become who I call religious zealots incognito and atheist absolutists.

These individuals are those who claim religion and intellect correlation, degrade the religious communities, and blindly follow the four horsemen of atheism as the know-all-say-all of the generation.

Indeed, this is not atheism, but another form of intellectual laziness. Yes, it is my claim that these individuals are no better than the religious who blindly follow "prophets" and damn freethinkers and homosexuals to hell. These sort of atheists give atheism a bad name, and it is my confession that I have at few times resembled such snobbish and mundane, militant atheism.

As atheists, I will arrogantly proclaim that we have a moral obligation to avoid such zealotry and stand as an intelligent and reasonable example to those we would have convinced to the concepts our argument.

I stand with Neil deGrasse Tyson, who stood before the scientific community and scolded them for belligerently and unsympathetically attacking the general population of believers before understanding the scientists who also believe. Indeed, he asserts that seven percent of all elite scientists are religious. Are we to just claim the sloppy intelligence and religious belief correlation argument? Or are we to go one step further and agree with Tyson, that there may just simply be some sort of asymptote, meaning that although with education religious belief may decrease, religious belief may never approach 0 and that it is extremely important that we seek to understand the seven percent of the smartest individuals on the planet and why they insist on living with belief and reason simultaneously.

Another topic of consideration is absolutist atheism. For those of us who are avid Dawkins and Hitchens fans, and who have been hurt by religion on a personal level, this may be difficult to avoid. It may be difficult to favor black and white distortions as to what really is reality.

It is my assertion that religion is not 100% terrible, it may be 100% nonsense, but it is certainly not an entirely destructive entity, though some sects may actually be. It is also my assertion that not all religious individuals are completely delusional or lacking in cognitive ability and I compare those who do make the comparison with a new form of discrimination. I would beg you to read White Man's Burden if you disagree, for the mentality displayed in the poem is often found in many foolish atheists.

It is also my assertion that it is pure stupidity to take all the writings of Dawkins and Hitchens without speculation and skepticism. I think that completely undermines their whole ideology and defeats the purpose of their arguments. It is important not to mistake extreme knowledge and intellect for prophecy. Science and philosophy is constantly changing, or redefining itself, and in no way are they absolutist assertions. That is why we have debates within the community. That is why the atheist community is one of the most divided communities since we have all learned to think for ourselves, but then again have learned to admit to reason and rational when we are wrong.

As I sat in church yesterday for an awfully long hour, these are the things that rushed through my mind as I contemplated my disgust for religion, but my deeper disgust for pseudo-atheists. As atheists, our argument and goals are important and fervent, but it is more important and fervent to maintain level heads lest we become a religion.

Now I hope it is apparent that this essay is not meant for the entire atheist community, but for those who do not deserve to carry the title. It is for those who assert themselves as "free thinkers" by fallacious arguments. Yes, facts are facts, but those who are absolutist and assert that man's intelligence is in direct correlation with his beliefs is no a proven fact, but a foolish hope of ignorance.
"Just call me Bruce Wayne. I'd rather be Batman."
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#2
RE: Pseudo-Atheism, this one is for you...
First, your post is a bit on the long side. It took a few minted to go through.

But enough of that. You seem to be opposed to the intelligence/religiosity correlation. I'm not sure why, except that it possibly implies unpleasant things about belief. Not all religious people are stupid, and there are many religious people who are very intelligent. No one disputes this. However the correlation between intelligence and irreligiosity is real and is strong. Once again, taking this to mean all believers are idiots is fallacious and unfounded, but it is an interesting fact.

You also seem to be railing against those who oppose religion as harmful. I'm not sure I agree with this either. I am not an anti-theist, but I am an anti-dogmatist. While theism and religion might be helpful to some individual's devotion to a dogma is almost always harmful. This is why intend not to rail against the religion of my parents, who hold to an abstract semi deistic form of Catholicism, but will mock and disparage many of the myths and dogma associated with fundamentalist Christianity.
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#3
RE: Pseudo-Atheism, this one is for you...
I was born an atheist and have been my entire life.

The only reason I am one is that everyone's claims on gods have fallen short of my (very, very low) expectation of evidence. I don't think atheism equates to skepticism, rational or reason, though they might be attributes that a lot of atheists have.

However I do agree somewhat with your point about the condemnation of people simply because they are religious. Sure their beliefs are generally quite silly but often they're just normal people who've probably been brought up in a religion.
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#4
RE: Pseudo-Atheism, this one is for you...
(July 28, 2014 at 1:45 pm)Quantum1Connect Wrote: Atheism should not be "I don't believe in God (gods)." Atheism is a schema and should always be "I don't believe in God (god's) because if-then." Atheism is not a product of its own, it is a product of skepticism, rational, and reason. Without these, what I would call, three pillars of atheism, atheism would cease to be.

A more generalized form would be "I don't believe in X because if-then". Gods don't get any more of pass than skepticism around an auto-loan, a job applicant or what a politician says.

I don't believe in *anything* without good reason and evidence. God claims are no more or less subject to that rule than anything else. Some of the most skeptical people I know are believers, except when it comes to their own pet God belief.

An odd quirk of humans that is.
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#5
RE: Pseudo-Atheism, this one is for you...
(July 28, 2014 at 2:00 pm)Natachan Wrote: First, your post is a bit on the long side. It took a few minted to go through.

But enough of that. You seem to be opposed to the intelligence/religiosity correlation. I'm not sure why, except that it possibly implies unpleasant things about belief. Not all religious people are stupid, and there are many religious people who are very intelligent. No one disputes this. However the correlation between intelligence and irreligiosity is real and is strong. Once again, taking this to mean all believers are idiots is fallacious and unfounded, but it is an interesting fact.

You also seem to be railing against those who oppose religion as harmful. I'm not sure I agree with this either. I am not an anti-theist, but I am an anti-dogmatist. While theism and religion might be helpful to some individual's devotion to a dogma is almost always harmful. This is why intend not to rail against the religion of my parents, who hold to an abstract semi deistic form of Catholicism, but will mock and disparage many of the myths and dogma associated with fundamentalist Christianity.

Nevertheless, thank you for reading it. Smile

I'm a little confused in regards to your first refutation, but my assertion is not in regards to intelligence and irreligiosity, but only intelligence and religiosity. I apologize if I had mistakenly asserted the same, though. It was not my attention. Also, I don't mean to claim all or nothing on the resolution on this correlation but I do assert the importance of not over extending the correlation. Meaning, not making 30-40% correlation look like 60-80% correlation.

But oh yes, I agree with you, I'm anti-religion, and anti-dogmatic, but I do not favor the assertion that it is all good or all bad. I think that as a sort of evolutionary stand point, religion has served a significant purpose.

But again, please tell me more so I can understand your argument more fully. Smile

(July 28, 2014 at 2:09 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote:
(July 28, 2014 at 1:45 pm)Quantum1Connect Wrote: Atheism should not be "I don't believe in God (gods)." Atheism is a schema and should always be "I don't believe in God (god's) because if-then." Atheism is not a product of its own, it is a product of skepticism, rational, and reason. Without these, what I would call, three pillars of atheism, atheism would cease to be.

A more generalized form would be "I don't believe in X because if-then". Gods don't get any more of pass than skepticism around an auto-loan, a job applicant or what a politician says.

I don't believe in *anything* without good reason and evidence. God claims are no more or less subject to that rule than anything else. Some of the most skeptical people I know are believers, except when it comes to their own pet God belief.

An odd quirk of humans that is.

I concur. Smile

(July 28, 2014 at 2:03 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: I was born an atheist and have been my entire life.

The only reason I am one is that everyone's claims on gods have fallen short of my (very, very low) expectation of evidence. I don't think atheism equates to skepticism, rational or reason, though they might be attributes that a lot of atheists have.

However I do agree somewhat with your point about the condemnation of people simply because they are religious. Sure their beliefs are generally quite silly but often they're just normal people who've probably been brought up in a religion.

I agree. Smile
"Just call me Bruce Wayne. I'd rather be Batman."
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#6
RE: Pseudo-Atheism, this one is for you...
(July 28, 2014 at 1:45 pm)Quantum1Connect Wrote: Now I hope it is apparent that this essay is not meant for the entire atheist community, but for those who do not deserve to carry the title.

Are you an Atheism+ refugee? Who judges worthiness? You? Some unknown committee? If you would like to address specific things some atheists have said, have at it. Denigrating a non-specified group of people by name dropping certain representatives simply because they are unlikely to hold hands with you and sing Kumbaya is not an argument. Straw man from hell.

Also, if you intentionally wrote this piece in an effort to convey the frustration you felt in church....job well done.
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#7
RE: Pseudo-Atheism, this one is for you...
(July 28, 2014 at 1:45 pm)Quantum1Connect Wrote: Without these, what I would call, three pillars of atheism, atheism would cease to be.
(July 28, 2014 at 1:45 pm)Quantum1Connect Wrote: Indeed, this is not atheism, but another form of intellectual laziness. Yes, it is my claim that these individuals are no better than the religious who blindly follow "prophets" and damn freethinkers and homosexuals to hell. These sort of atheists give atheism a bad name, and it is my confession that I have at few times resembled such snobbish and mundane, militant atheism.

As atheists, I will arrogantly proclaim that we have a moral obligation to avoid such zealotry and stand as an intelligent and reasonable example to those we would have convinced to the concepts our argument.

That's an awful lot of ipse dixit for someone claiming it's a bad thing to blindly follow others.
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#8
RE: Pseudo-Atheism, this one is for you...
(July 28, 2014 at 2:18 pm)Cato Wrote:
(July 28, 2014 at 1:45 pm)Quantum1Connect Wrote: Now I hope it is apparent that this essay is not meant for the entire atheist community, but for those who do not deserve to carry the title.

Are you an Atheism+ refugee? Who judges worthiness? You? Some unknown committee? If you would like to address specific things some atheists have said, have at it. Denigrating a non-specified group of people by name dropping certain representatives simply because they are unlikely to hold hands with you and sing Kumbaya is not an argument. Straw man from hell.

Also, if you intentionally wrote this piece in an effort to convey the frustration you felt in church....job well done.

Hell no. My emphasis is on those atheists who use cognitive distortions and circular arguments in the face of contradicting evidence.

Fuck Atheism+, I hold no sentiments with them. Thank you for reading Smile

(July 28, 2014 at 2:19 pm)rasetsu Wrote:
(July 28, 2014 at 1:45 pm)Quantum1Connect Wrote: Without these, what I would call, three pillars of atheism, atheism would cease to be.
(July 28, 2014 at 1:45 pm)Quantum1Connect Wrote: Indeed, this is not atheism, but another form of intellectual laziness. Yes, it is my claim that these individuals are no better than the religious who blindly follow "prophets" and damn freethinkers and homosexuals to hell. These sort of atheists give atheism a bad name, and it is my confession that I have at few times resembled such snobbish and mundane, militant atheism.

As atheists, I will arrogantly proclaim that we have a moral obligation to avoid such zealotry and stand as an intelligent and reasonable example to those we would have convinced to the concepts our argument.

That's an awful lot of ipse dixit for someone claiming it's a bad thing to blindly follow others.

Good catch, I have been rather subjective, but nevertheless willing to debate reason into my assertion.
"Just call me Bruce Wayne. I'd rather be Batman."
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#9
RE: Pseudo-Atheism, this one is for you...
(July 28, 2014 at 2:23 pm)Quantum1Connect Wrote: Hell no. My emphasis is on those atheists who use cognitive distortions and circular arguments in the face of contradicting evidence.

You have yet to provide an example. Be specific. You name dropped Hitchens, Dawkins, and Russell, but you never cited any argument that you now claim is circular.
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#10
RE: Pseudo-Atheism, this one is for you...
(July 28, 2014 at 2:27 pm)Cato Wrote:
(July 28, 2014 at 2:23 pm)Quantum1Connect Wrote: Hell no. My emphasis is on those atheists who use cognitive distortions and circular arguments in the face of contradicting evidence.

You have yet to provide an example. Be specific. You name dropped Hitchens, Dawkins, and Russell, but you never cited any argument that you now claim is circular.

I didn't mean to say that their arguments were circular, I meant to say that those who take the words of these thinkers as concrete knowledge without second thought to skepticism before acceptance. those are those who use circular arguments.

As in those who read God Is Not Great as their new bible.

I have no citations, for my argument is waged due to those in my personal life who have a false sense of atheism and reason.

I find no fault, and further have no refutations for these authors, only for those who accept them as prophets and gods.

In other words, I am not atheist because Dawkins and Hitchens asserts that it is wise to do so. I am atheist because I have reviewed the evidence, read the journals, and observed and experimented where possible. It just so happens that Dawkins and Hitchens were the catalyst to my exiting of religion. I read their words, hence I cross referenced and did my research.

I hope I am making myself clear.
"Just call me Bruce Wayne. I'd rather be Batman."
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