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RE: Have you had experiences you'd describe as sacred, mystical and/or religious?
August 21, 2014 at 12:12 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2014 at 12:16 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(August 21, 2014 at 10:39 am)Diablo Wrote: That's a bit weird. How do we jump from the universe to god?...And really, your comment about 'someone who is sufficiently educated' is unnecessary. The tone of my writing comes across as arrogant which is why some people call me a pompous ass. I used the phrase 'sufficiently educated' to mean those who know and correctly understand the philosophical tradition from the pre-Socratics to the Schoolmen. Many people are highly educated, even in Western philosophy, and yet have only a cursory understanding of the early history.
The question you raise is whether the sum total of reality is confined to the physical universe. I certainly do not think that the case since that would exclude things that everyone tacitly accept as part of reality, like the universal application of mathematics, semiotic meaning, and validity propositional logic. The nature of the physical universe and our experience of it is logically contingent on these prior features.
While these mental properties manifest together with physical processes, there is no justification for claiming that they must be reducible to physical processes. In fact there are good reasons for supposing that they are not, starting with basic common sense, because everyone lives their lives as if they have free will, make moral choices, words have meaning, and that rationality conforms to reality.
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RE: Have you had experiences you'd describe as sacred, mystical and/or religious?
August 21, 2014 at 12:29 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2014 at 12:30 pm by Anomalocaris.)
You come across as a pompous ass not because you are more arrogant than average. You come across as a pompous ass because your arrogance is backed by nothing but the smell of your farts, and you imagined that somehow the odor equips you to overawe anyone else.
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RE: Have you had experiences you'd describe as sacred, mystical and/or religious?
August 21, 2014 at 12:40 pm
(August 21, 2014 at 10:35 am)ChadWooters Wrote: By definition, the universe is the sum total of everything, or All. The physical universe appears to be a contingent feature within this Totality. From Parmenides through Aquinas and Swedenborg, this Totality, has been regarded as the "One" from which all things come. Looking at the physical universe and applying reason to experience, I do not see how someone who is sufficiently educated can fail to recognize the 'god of the philosophers'.
This topic is about experiences which could be described as sacred, mystical and/or religious. My shift in perception gave me the subjective 'feeling' that the universe is within me, etc. but it was the result of turning into the scientific view of the physical universe.
How did the philosophers reach their conclusions? I'm guessing it's because people had the same kind of experiences - they interpreted the result as God being the Totality instead of the physical universe being the totality.
 Where are the snake and mushroom smilies?
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RE: Have you had experiences you'd describe as sacred, mystical and/or religious?
August 21, 2014 at 12:43 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2014 at 12:46 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(August 21, 2014 at 12:29 pm)Chuck Wrote: You come across as a pompous ass not because you are more arrogant than average. You come across as a pompous ass because your arrogance is backed by nothing but the smell of your farts, and you imagined that somehow the odor equips you to overawe anyone else. Sticks and stone bounce off me and stick to you. If you have a logical response I'm all ears.
(August 21, 2014 at 12:40 pm)Confused Ape Wrote: ...How did the philosophers reach their conclusions? I'm guessing it's because people had the same kind of experiences - they interpreted the result as God being the Totality instead of the physical universe being the totality. It may have something to do with the fact that many of the elite pagans, including the pre-Socratics, were initiates in various Mystery Religions.
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RE: Have you had experiences you'd describe as sacred, mystical and/or religious?
August 21, 2014 at 12:48 pm
(August 21, 2014 at 10:59 am)paulpablo Wrote: I've had experiences that seemed mystical and at times I thought they were, but I'm a deeply unspiritual person now ..
I can relate. Like you I assume everything I've experienced is based in brain chemistry and structure. That which James labeled religious experience and everything I've experienced, I'm convinced, is entirely natural.
What these experiences have contributed to for me is a revolution in how I conceptualize the 'self' or personal identity. Just as there are many autonomic systems in your body which do not require your conscious attention or intention, the same is true for the mind and consciousness.
We traditionally postulate just one nexus of consciousness in a person. I think that is mistaken. There is a much broader band of consciousness going on all the time, of which what we are aware of is only a part. Awareness is not limited to what you focus your attention on, and neither is its cognitive processing.
So I think these kinds of experience tap into these deeper levels of consciousness. It is here where you will find the hole into which the conceptions of a god fit so well. But there are better ways to understand it in my opinion.
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RE: Have you had experiences you'd describe as sacred, mystical and/or religious?
August 21, 2014 at 12:52 pm
(August 21, 2014 at 12:12 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (August 21, 2014 at 10:39 am)Diablo Wrote: That's a bit weird. How do we jump from the universe to god?...And really, your comment about 'someone who is sufficiently educated' is unnecessary. The tone of my writing comes across as arrogant which is why some people call me a pompous ass. I used the phrase 'sufficiently educated' to mean those who know and correctly understand the philosophical tradition from the pre-Socratics to the Schoolmen. Many people are highly educated, even in Western philosophy, and yet have only a cursory understanding of the early history.
The question you raise is whether the sum total of reality is confined to the physical universe. I certainly do not think that the case since that would exclude things that everyone tacitly accept as part of reality, like the universal application of mathematics, semiotic meaning, and validity propositional logic. The nature of the physical universe and our experience of it is logically contingent on these prior features.
While these mental properties manifest together with physical processes, there is no justification for claiming that they must be reducible to physical processes. In fact there are good reasons for supposing that they are not, starting with basic common sense, because everyone lives their lives as if they have free will, make moral choices, words have meaning, and that rationality conforms to reality.
Well, I don't know you so I'm not going to call you arrogant, but you do sound pompous.
Philosophy leaves me cold. It was the only system that people had to explore the world before mathematics, and then science, came along, after which it became redundant. Anyone who wants to know anything now studies science, not the musings of some ancient Greek.
And you still haven't got to the god bit, by the way. Maybe you would get your message across better if you tried to use more precise language.
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RE: Have you had experiences you'd describe as sacred, mystical and/or religious?
August 21, 2014 at 12:56 pm
(August 21, 2014 at 12:52 pm)Diablo Wrote: Well, I don't know you so I'm not going to call you arrogant, but you do sound pompous.
People it's right there in his title, below his user name. You've got to admire anyone who will own his pompous assidness so publically. Of course, if he should ever call anyone else one .. look out! By the adage of taking one to know one, you'd have to accept the title too.
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RE: Have you had experiences you'd describe as sacred, mystical and/or religious?
August 21, 2014 at 3:31 pm
A female friend of mine claims to talk to spirits and she wants to be a medium. Me? I've never understood those stories, I've never experienced nothing supernatural or paranormal at all, just the naturalistic world we live in
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: Have you had experiences you'd describe as sacred, mystical and/or religious?
August 21, 2014 at 3:51 pm
(August 21, 2014 at 12:56 pm)whateverist Wrote: (August 21, 2014 at 12:52 pm)Diablo Wrote: Well, I don't know you so I'm not going to call you arrogant, but you do sound pompous.
People it's right there in his title, below his user name. You've got to admire anyone who will own his pompous assidness so publically. Of course, if he should ever call anyone else one .. look out! By the adage of taking one to know one, you'd have to accept the title too.
The point about the way he writes is that he sounds like such a prat that people will just ignore him. I mean, life is short, everyone's busy, you're not going to spend time decoding that rubbish. It's a lesson in how not to get your message across.
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RE: Have you had experiences you'd describe as sacred, mystical and/or religious?
August 21, 2014 at 3:53 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2014 at 3:54 pm by Confused Ape.)
(August 21, 2014 at 12:43 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: It may have something to do with the fact that many of the elite pagans, including the pre-Socratics, were initiates in various Mystery Religions.
And these mystery religions were designed to produce altered states of consciousness. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they developed from shamanism which was probably the very first kind of religion humans came up with.
Humans who have mystical experiences will experience very similar things because we've all got human brains. The interesting thing about it all as far as I'm concerned is the different interpretations and beliefs resulting from these experiences.
Where are the snake and mushroom smilies?
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