Eternal punishment is pointless.

[dyresand]

The problem is we can't keep from doing bad things to other people.

I don't agree in the slightest. We would never have civilized if we had no capacity to control our base instincts. I think we are not only capable of refraining from doing intentional ill to others, but we're slowly coming to understand that we shouldn't need some external incentive to be that way.

And, we didn't learn this from some holy book. In large part, we learned it because our more ignorant forebears so thoroughly shamed themselves with some of the things they did that many of the rest of us would never propose another Holocaust or the re-legalization of human slavery.

But, of course, we still have a lot of enlightening yet to do. There will be a future generation of humans that look back on the evils of unrestrained capitalism in much the same way we look back on the evils of chattel slavery, and wonder what kind of cavemen could possibly think that skin color is an important characteristic in a person.

I agree with you Ryan. Lek's world of thinking is a horrible one and believing everyone is a horrible person. i wont disagree everyone is a good person just good people outweigh the terrible. The people who written the bible just really had it some what well written that hey some people are good some people are bad and no one is really good. Then they have the jesus guy who is not born into sin and he is all good. But i disagree with the bible on lots of things and the bible is not to be taken literal. good people do bad things some times but it doesn't make them any worse than what they are.

[Mister Agenda]

Yeah. I'm sure you've heard that one way to tell for sure if a Christian is lying is whether or not his lips are moving. I guess this time it's whether or not his fingers are moving on the keyboard.

I never heard that before. Sounds a bit harsh, and over-generalized.

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The problem is we can't keep from doing bad things to other people.

One shouldn't let 'best' be an obstacle to 'better'. Moral perfection is an unrealistic standard.

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Did you ever steal anything Dyresand? Did you ever do anything bad to anyone?

This is the part people are comparing you to Ray Comfort for, he likes to 'get' people who claim to be good by demonstrating that they're not perfect. And to Comfort (and you?), if you're not perfectly good, you're bad. 'Pretty good' apparently isn't on the table...I suppose because it's way too reasonable for fundamentalist purposes.

[JesusChristLover]

It will take me time to read and digest this 49 page thread, so here is my contribution to this discussion just by reading the OP.

Every sinner in hell has a full realization that he deserves to be there. Each sinner has a fully informed, acutely aware, and sensitive conscience which, in hell, becomes his own tormenter. This is the experience of torture in hell—a person fully aware of his or her sin with a relentlessly accusing conscience, without relief for even one moment. The guilt of sin will produce shame and everlasting self-hatred.

We, at this very moment know that eternal punishment for a lifetime of sins is justified and deserved. We have two simple options, repent or go-to-hell.

[Chad32]

I'm pretty sure the only reason homosexuals, for instance, feel bad about their "sin" of loving who they love, is because people beat them up over it. In a place where people can be themselves, like some real world places where religion is not a big part of the community, people get along quite happily.

And no, infinite punishment for finite crimes is wrong. If anyone is feeling negatively about their lives away from Yahweh, they'll have people who care about them to help them through it. just like what happens in this life.

[Cyberman]

We, at this very moment know that eternal punishment for a lifetime of sins is justified and deserved.

No, in fact we know the exact opposite of that.

[Whateverist]

It will take me time to read and digest this 49 page thread, so here is my contribution to this discussion just by reading the OP.

Every sinner in hell has a full realization that he deserves to be there. Each sinner has a fully informed, acutely aware, and sensitive conscience which, in hell, becomes his own tormenter. This is the experience of torture in hell—a person fully aware of his or her sin with a relentlessly accusing conscience, without relief for even one moment. The guilt of sin will produce shame and everlasting self-hatred.

We, at this very moment know that eternal punishment for a lifetime of sins is justified and deserved. We have two simple options, repent or go-to-hell.

So tell me, what godly purpose do you think hell serves? Is it about retribution or rehabilitation? (Careful, your answer is likely to tell us much more about you than 'the afterlife'.)

[Ryantology]

It will take me time to read and digest this 49 page thread, so here is my contribution to this discussion just by reading the OP.

Every sinner in hell has a full realization that he deserves to be there. Each sinner has a fully informed, acutely aware, and sensitive conscience which, in hell, becomes his own tormenter. This is the experience of torture in hell—a person fully aware of his or her sin with a relentlessly accusing conscience, without relief for even one moment. The guilt of sin will produce shame and everlasting self-hatred.

We, at this very moment know that eternal punishment for a lifetime of sins is justified and deserved. We have two simple options, repent or go-to-hell.

You read it, but apparently digested none of it. I am already fully aware that Christianity worships a bloodthirsty asshole and blames the victim. This thread isn't about justifying God's desire to torture and harm people, but punishment you can't learn from or use is nothing more than petty malice on the part of your awful god.

[dyresand]

It will take me time to read and digest this 49 page thread, so here is my contribution to this discussion just by reading the OP.

Every sinner in hell has a full realization that he deserves to be there. Each sinner has a fully informed, acutely aware, and sensitive conscience which, in hell, becomes his own tormenter. This is the experience of torture in hell—a person fully aware of his or her sin with a relentlessly accusing conscience, without relief for even one moment. The guilt of sin will produce shame and everlasting self-hatred.

We, at this very moment know that eternal punishment for a lifetime of sins is justified and deserved. We have two simple options, repent or go-to-hell.

Do you know there is a hell?
Have you been to hell?
Can you see hell?
Can you experience hell?
Where can i find hell?
if you cannot answer those questions hell doesn't exist.

[Whateverist]

It will take me time to read and digest this 49 page thread, so here is my contribution to this discussion just by reading the OP.

Every sinner in hell has a full realization that he deserves to be there. Each sinner has a fully informed, acutely aware, and sensitive conscience which, in hell, becomes his own tormenter. This is the experience of torture in hell—a person fully aware of his or her sin with a relentlessly accusing conscience, without relief for even one moment. The guilt of sin will produce shame and everlasting self-hatred.

We, at this very moment know that eternal punishment for a lifetime of sins is justified and deserved. We have two simple options, repent or go-to-hell.

Do you know there is a hell?
Have you been to hell?
Can you see hell?
Can you experience hell?
Where can i find hell?
if you cannot answer those questions to hell with it.

Fixed that for you.

[dyresand]

Do you know there is a hell?
Have you been to hell?
Can you see hell?
Can you experience hell?
Where can i find hell?
if you cannot answer those questions to hell with it.

Fixed that for you.