Why so many "anti-feminists" in the atheist community?

[Dystopia]

So when I hear "the extreme minority doesn't dictate what the rest do." I don't believe you. The idological extreme are more passionate and will do more to further their cause. This affect is a noticeble with Anita Sarkeesian going on Colbert Report as an example. The younger generation will picture Anita Sarkeesian when they think feminism. Hense, I do not call myself a feminist because I don't want to imply my support to the extreme feminist. Plus, egalitarianism fits my position much better than feminism does.

But it's still a wrong picture - Supporting feminism doesn't equate with supporting misandry and female superiority, the fact society could misunderstand you proves people are quick to make judgements without actually looking and hearing individuals who hold the position... The fact is, most feminists are pro-equality and dislike gender roles/stereotypes, and that's a cause that has all my support. I'm also an egalitarian, obviously, but you can't be one without being a feminist, feminism works almost as a sub-category (but not the only) for egalitarianism and if you support gender equality you are by definition a supporter of feminism in it's original definition as being a pro-equality ideology - To deny that is the same as saying I'm not an atheist I just don't have belief in any particular god. You can call yourself an egalitarian, but you are implicitly a feminist if you support gender equality, you may not reveal it, you may not speak about it, but you still are. The reason why it's called feminism is because it centres itself primarily on women's issues and women's discrimination. It doesn't mean it ignores blatantly men's issues - In fact inter-sectional feminist, that equates female equality with men's problems, race, sexual orientation, religion and other topics/subjects is very popular

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't care for radical feminism. I think making accusations of "rape culture" and "gender genocide" undermines the laudable goal of gender equality. I suspect radical feminists don't really care about gender equality, and that means they will not get my support, and I certainly don't care, as an atheist, to be associated with their message.

Maybe accusations of rape culture would stop coming out if victim blaming and extreme pity people have for rapists stopped existing... Ever heard a comment like Oh she had short clothes, that was a deserved rape.

The men who say shit like that are an extremely small minority, nowadays, and when such is uttered by a public figure they are rightfully excoriated. How, then, does that translate into an entire culture which supports the rape of women? The vast majority of men that I know do not trivialize rape. The vast majority of men I know don't deny that rape is a serious crime. The vast majority of men I know feel no sympathy for rapists.

Feel free to provide counterexamples.

I don't like it when someone assumes that because I'm a man, I'm blithe to the crime of rape. Not only is such an assumption untrue, it's unfair. Yet radical feminists are happy to sling shit like that simply on the basis of what's in my tacklebox. Sloppy thinking is sloppy thinking, and unfariness is unfairness.

[bennyboy]

That's right. Unthinking hypocrisy is not a good remedy for unthinking stereotyping.

[Surgenator]

So when I hear "the extreme minority doesn't dictate what the rest do." I don't believe you. The idological extreme are more passionate and will do more to further their cause. This affect is a noticeble with Anita Sarkeesian going on Colbert Report as an example. The younger generation will picture Anita Sarkeesian when they think feminism. Hense, I do not call myself a feminist because I don't want to imply my support to the extreme feminist. Plus, egalitarianism fits my position much better than feminism does.

But it's still a wrong picture - Supporting feminism doesn't equate with supporting misandry and female superiority, the fact society could misunderstand you proves people are quick to make judgements without actually looking and hearing individuals who hold the position... The fact is, most feminists are pro-equality and dislike gender roles/stereotypes, and that's a cause that has all my support. I'm also an egalitarian, obviously, but you can't be one without being a feminist, feminism works almost as a sub-category (but not the only) for egalitarianism and if you support gender equality you are by definition a supporter of feminism in it's original definition as being a pro-equality ideology - To deny that is the same as saying I'm not an atheist I just don't have belief in any particular god. You can call yourself an egalitarian, but you are implicitly a feminist if you support gender equality, you may not reveal it, you may not speak about it, but you still are. The reason why it's called feminism is because it centres itself primarily on women's issues and women's discrimination. It doesn't mean it ignores blatantly men's issues - In fact inter-sectional feminist, that equates female equality with men's problems, race, sexual orientation, religion and other topics/subjects is very popular

There are at least two definitions of feminism. You are using one, and some people use another. These definitions are often used interchangebly in the feminist community e.g. Atheism+. As I see it, I can either put my efforts into fighting for the what feminism means, or I can use a non-obscure definition of my stance. The former has an inherent flaw in its name that causes confusion. Egalitarianism has no such flaw. So, I choose the latter.

I also get another benefit of choosing to call myself an egalitarian because it is for LGBT rights and against racism.

[Dystopia]

The men who say shit like that are an extremely small minority, nowadays, and when such is uttered by a public figure they are rightfully excoriated. How, then, does that translate into an entire culture which supports the rape of women? The vast majority of men that I know do not trivialize rape. The vast majority of men I know don't deny that rape is a serious crime. The vast majority of men I know feel no sympathy for rapists.

Not only men, rape culture is aimed at women who trivialize rape as well, let's not forget that. Regardless of that, your personal experience tells me nothing about it. First of all, rape culture is about men and women, given that male rape victims are mocked and laughed at, which is a shameful and disgusting social reaction. Second, rape culture is about subconscious or indirect messages that trivialize rape, not only about people explicitly saying "I'm against rape" - For instance, why do some news make it very important about describing how the victim was dressed, or how much she drank? Why are rape jokes so popular when they can actually hurt people who've been sexually assaulted? Why is rape thrown vulgarly in series like GOT as an entertainment strategy and not as something awful that leads to character development? Why do most rapists not get reported, and when they do, most are not sentenced? Why do myths about rape or misconceptions - Like the ones that tells us rape happen outside of home when in fact most sexual assault acts happen in a relationship, in a place where the victim once felt safe and with someone they trusted - Still exist? You want a personal example too? I'll tell you this one - Once a 14 year old got raped in my country, I checked out a news website and the comment box was full of people saying "what was she thinking it'd happen when she drank that much" or "why did she wear that and expected to not be assaulted" or "why do you complain when it's your fault and you could have prevented it"


.

I don't like it when someone assumes that because I'm a man, I'm blithe to the crime of rape. Not only is such an assumption untrue, it's unfair. Yet radical feminists are happy to sling shit like that simply on the basis of what's in my tacklebox. Sloppy thinking is sloppy thinking, and unfariness is unfairness.

That's terribly unfair and the claim that someone is a rapist for being a man is completely irrational, however how many feminists really claim that and how representative are they of the feminist movement?

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There are at least two definitions of feminism. You are using one, and some people use another. These definitions are often used interchangebly in the feminist community e.g. Atheism+. As I see it, I can either put my efforts into fighting for the what feminism means, or I can use a non-obscure definition of my stance. The former has an inherent flaw in its name that causes confusion. Egalitarianism has no such flaw. So, I choose the latter.

I also get another benefit of choosing to call myself an egalitarian because it is for LGBT rights and against racism.

Most feminists are pro-gay marriage and anti-racism.

It's hard to define something completely, even atheism has misconceptions and no 100% correct definition - But do you stop calling yourself an atheist just because of that - Or do you pick your own definition of atheist and label yourself as such? I'm guessing it's the later option.

[Surgenator]

There are at least two definitions of feminism. You are using one, and some people use another. These definitions are often used interchangebly in the feminist community e.g. Atheism+. As I see it, I can either put my efforts into fighting for the what feminism means, or I can use a non-obscure definition of my stance. The former has an inherent flaw in its name that causes confusion. Egalitarianism has no such flaw. So, I choose the latter.

I also get another benefit of choosing to call myself an egalitarian because it is for LGBT rights and against racism.

Most feminists are pro-gay marriage and anti-racism.

It's hard to define something completely, even atheism has misconceptions and no 100% correct definition - But do you stop calling yourself an atheist just because of that - Or do you pick your own definition of atheist and label yourself as such? I'm guessing it's the later option.

As far as i know, athsism is defined as the lack of a belief in a deity. Theist try to define atheism as something else, and I'll will gladly fight them. I rarely see any in fighting on what atheism is in the atheist community. The feminist community seems to have in fighting.

[Dystopia]

That's a very brief description, but it's possible to create a broader spectrum definition that encompasses many others traits... Let me give you my example - I'm a gnostic atheist and I'm not as heavily represented because I make the positive claim that god doesn't exist and because of that I happily discuss and debate with atheists regarding the definition - My definition isn't that atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods but rather either a lack of belief in any particular god or the positive claim/belief that god doesn't exist - As you can see, there is disagreement in the atheist community, I just disagreed with you. As for feminism, it is defined as a movement that focuses primary on women's rights to attain gender equality, not female superiority or male oppression. Other definitions can be forwarded by dumb feminazi groups but they are not as valid and they twist the real, most significant meaning feminism has as being a part of an egalitarian philosophy and ideology - I'm like you, and egalitarian, and that position encompasses feminism, I cannot be an egalitarian without supporting social, economically and morally fair feminist causes.

I stand by the position I've already disclosed - That people are afraid of the stigma associated with the word and that's why everyone prefers the label egalitarian or any other word/expression that works as a synonym, but that doesn't erase the fact that those people are not identifying with an ideology (gender equality) that they support.

[Surgenator]

That's a very brief description, but it's possible to create a broader spectrum definition that encompasses many others traits... Let me give you my example - I'm a gnostic atheist and I'm not as heavily represented because I make the positive claim that god doesn't exist and because of that I happily discuss and debate with atheists regarding the definition - My definition isn't that atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods but rather either a lack of belief in any particular god or the positive claim/belief that god doesn't exist - As you can see, there is disagreement in the atheist community, I just disagreed with you.

You added the modifier 'gnostic' to atheism. Hence, the definition of gnostic-athiest is not the same as atheist. However, I don't see a conflict because you still lack a belief in god.

As for feminism, it is defined as a movement that focuses primary on women's rights to attain gender equality, not female superiority or male oppression. Other definitions can be forwarded by dumb feminazi groups but they are not as valid and they twist the real, most significant meaning feminism has as being a part of an egalitarian philosophy and ideology - I'm like you, and egalitarian, and that position encompasses feminism, I cannot be an egalitarian without supporting social, economically and morally fair feminist causes.

The word 'feminism' has an inherent weakness that implies female centered. This is why the feminazi have so much traction. If they didn't, I would be perfectly happy to call myself a feminist.

[Dystopia]

You added the modifier 'gnostic' to atheism. Hence, the definition of gnostic-athiest is not the same as atheist. However, I don't see a conflict because you still lack a belief in god.

I don't, I know god doesn't exist, it's not a lack of belief, rather I possess knowledge - Please let's not discuss this and go off topic.

The word 'feminism' has an inherent weakness that implies female centered. This is why the feminazi have so much traction. If they didn't, I would be perfectly happy to call myself a feminist.

so are you saying that you adopt positions depending on the word used to describe them? It's female centred because it's meant to fight gender inequality, but that doesn't dismiss the fact feminists care about men's issues, and gays, trans, people of all races, animals and so on - That's the so called intersectional feminism, that deals with other subjects as well. I think the word has it's roots back in the XX and late XIX century, and they just kept the word as it was back then - But it's not the word that matters, rather the ideology. Imagine that feminism was called egalitarianism from the beginning and that there were feminazis in the egalitarian movement advocating female superiority - Would you stop being one because of them? I guess the answer is no - Same logic applies to feminism. Let's say feminists start calling the movement egalitarianism - Would you associate with them?

[Creed of Heresy]

The word 'feminism' has an inherent weakness that implies female centered.

My thoughts exactly. Summed up much more concisely than I managed.

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so are you saying that you adopt positions depending on the word used to describe them? It's female centred because it's meant to fight gender inequality, but that doesn't dismiss the fact feminists care about men's issues, and gays, trans, people of all races, animals and so on - That's the so called intersectional feminism, that deals with other subjects as well. I think the word has it's roots back in the XX and late XIX century, and they just kept the word as it was back then - But it's not the word that matters, rather the ideology.

As someone who shares his stance (I think), I have to say, you are too quick to take a dismissive tone towards terminology defining stances; after all, that is kind of the point. And me, personally, I use words to describe the positions I take. What a novel concept, right?

It was called feminism because it meant to fight gender inequality, and actually, by the name itself, it is dismissive of men's issues and any other issues. By definition, it is about women first, and only women. It is not femitransgenderandronism, it is feminism. FEM. Inism. Femme. Female-ism.

There IS a distinction nowadays between feminism and egalitarianism, whether you like it or not, whether you wanna admit it or not. There is a reason why such differentiation is becoming a thing. It's not because it's trendy or hip or cool; we didn't become atheists because of those things, we didn't adopt the term because it sounds cool; we became atheists, and we take the term of atheists, because that is what we are. Feminism and egalitarianism are not the same thing, and those who are for actual gender equality are shifting their stance accordingly, because feminism is no longer about gender equality, and by its very name, it never was to begin with. Feminism was necessary and useful in bringing awareness to the issues in question, but now with the awareness achieved, we need to work towards making things equal, and it's not just women who are being discriminated against, and there's no reason nowadays to prioritize women over anyone else; man, woman, transgenderal/transsexual, gender-neutral, all should be equal, and it should no longer be a focus upon just one group when we are now all being made aware of inequalities across ALL regions of the issue.