Why so many "anti-feminists" in the atheist community?

[MJ the Skeptical]

What rights do I as a male have over a woman in the west?

This should be good...

Define rights. Legal rights? Supposedly laws consider both gender equal, so no, you don't have any rights over women, and women have no rights over you, except that you mentioned you have less rights than women, a claim anedoctal at best.. What do you mean by rights?

Yes, I'm referring to legal rights, obviously. Which is my point, if there was some patriarchal system against women in the west, it wouldn't be so equal between the genders and men wouldn't suffer oppression either. But I guess to feminists, male oppression isn't as bad or is caused by the patriarchy itself which just begs the question about it's validity.

If you want to get technical on rights though, women do seem to have more rights in some respects, like child custody and alimony where as I can't think of something a man has in his favor legally.

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What rights do I as a male have over a woman in the west?

This should be good...

You don't know anything about feminism. Feminism very heavily focuses on women's rights in the middle east. How can you think they don't?

See, this is what I was talking about when I was calling feminism dogmatic.

Make an ad hominem that I just don't understand and avoid giving evidence.

Really? because most of the outreach from Feminists I see and most new wave feminist literature is against this so called patriarchy in the west and that is there #1 priority, look at any of the famous feminists, especially from youtube, stuck on problems that don't even really exist, like sexism in gaming.

I'm going to take a guess that you get most of your information from people who oppose them. Try reading up from the point of view of feminists, not those who oppose them. There is a huge movement towards women's rights in the middle east. You have been told there isn't by people who also don't read feminist literature.

Get what information from? aren't you throwing stones from your glass house though? wouldn't you be the one getting your information from the one's who advocate it? I've yet to see where I've gotten my information from that opposes feminism inherently.

Where is this campaign for actually oppressed women instead of these whiny 1st world problem hipster feminists? and how well is it doing for those women over there? not good huh? still majorly unaffected by this supposed campaign for them. Again, you must not be following feminism very closely because there are a bunch of harpies that write horrible shit all over tumblr about men and it can get hundreds of thousands of notes and positive feedback from feminists.

[Dystopia]

Yes, I'm referring to legal rights, obviously. Which is my point, if there was some patriarchal system against women in the west, it wouldn't be so equal between the genders and men wouldn't suffer oppression either. But I guess to feminists, male oppression isn't as bad or is caused by the patriarchy itself which just begs the question about it's validity.

1 - Just because the law says so, it doesn't mean in happens like it says on the law
2 - Men don't suffer oppression and if you think you're being oppressed when we hold the majority of public office, CEO's jobs, media outlets and means of production then you've just created a new definition of oppressed, give me a break...

If you want to get technical on rights though, women do seem to have more rights in some respects, like child custody and alimony where as I can't think of something a man has in his favor legally.

That becomes completely irrelevant since it's based on the sexist assumption that women are meant to be child bearers and raisers - In case you don't know (probably don't) rational feminists are against gender biases in court. Not to mention it's completely idiotic to claim women are benefited when problems like slut-shaming, higher probability of suffering sexual assault and other problems are much more damaging and important than simply being granted child custody.
And why is that a good thing? Some might argue raising kids sucks and it's hardworking, some might even say it's a benefit for men.

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Yes, I'm referring to legal rights, obviously. Which is my point, if there was some patriarchal system against women in the west, it wouldn't be so equal between the genders and men wouldn't suffer oppression either. But I guess to feminists, male oppression isn't as bad or is caused by the patriarchy itself which just begs the question about it's validity.

1 - Just because the law says so, it doesn't mean in happens like it says on the law
2 - Men don't suffer oppression and if you think you're being oppressed when we hold the majority of public office, CEO's jobs, media outlets and means of production then you've just created a new definition of oppressed, give me a break...

If you want to get technical on rights though, women do seem to have more rights in some respects, like child custody and alimony where as I can't think of something a man has in his favor legally.

That becomes completely irrelevant since it's based on the sexist assumption that women are meant to be child bearers and raisers - In case you don't know (probably don't) rational feminists are against gender biases in court. Not to mention it's completely idiotic to claim women are benefited when problems like slut-shaming, higher probability of suffering sexual assault and other problems are much more damaging and important than simply being granted child custody.
And why is that a good thing? Some might argue raising kids sucks and it's hardworking, some might even say it's a benefit for men.

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Where is this campaign for actually oppressed women instead of these whiny 1st world problem hipster feminists? and how well is it doing for those women over there? not good huh? thought so. Again, you must not be following feminism very closely because there are a bunch of harpies that write horrible shit all over tumblr about men and it can get hundreds of thousands of notes and positive feedback from feminists.

And you must be one of those young male that believes in the conspiracy theory that feminism is ruining your life and that women want to impose a new world order. Speaking about tumblr as if that was feminist literature is completely idiotic. And have you actually read any significant work of literature or study done by feminist authors on the matter?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Not only men, rape culture is aimed at women who trivialize rape as well, let's not forget that. Regardless of that, your personal experience tells me nothing about it. First of all, rape culture is about men and women, given that male rape victims are mocked and laughed at, which is a shameful and disgusting social reaction. Second, rape culture is about subconscious or indirect messages that trivialize rape, not only about people explicitly saying "I'm against rape" - For instance, why do some news make it very important about describing how the victim was dressed, or how much she drank? Why are rape jokes so popular when they can actually hurt people who've been sexually assaulted? Why is rape thrown vulgarly in series like GOT as an entertainment strategy and not as something awful that leads to character development? Why do most rapists not get reported, and when they do, most are not sentenced? Why do myths about rape or misconceptions - Like the ones that tells us rape happen outside of home when in fact most sexual assault acts happen in a relationship, in a place where the victim once felt safe and with someone they trusted - Still exist? You want a personal example too? I'll tell you this one - Once a 14 year old got raped in my country, I checked out a news website and the comment box was full of people saying "what was she thinking it'd happen when she drank that much" or "why did she wear that and expected to not be assaulted" or "why do you complain when it's your fault and you could have prevented it"

Again where are your numbers? What has happened with rape convictions in the last 20 years? Do those numbers and trends justify tarring large swathes of the population with the accusation of at least silently supporting rape?
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That's terribly unfair and the claim that someone is a rapist for being a man is completely irrational, however how many feminists really claim that and how representative are they of the feminist movement?

I think we're talking past each other, in the sense that I have no problem with the views held by most feminists, which as I noted earlier are laudable in their thrust. It's only the radicals that irk me -- those who make a cottage industry of bashing anyone who doesn't accept their claims lock, stock, and barrel.

I like the term egalitarian as used above, and though I've never considered it as a descriptor for myself, I think I will start using it ... it describes my views succinctly and without baggage.

[Dystopia]

Again where are your numbers? What has happened with rape convictions in the last 20 years? Do those numbers and trends justify tarring large swathes of the population with the accusation of at least silently supporting rape?

Here are some statistics and facts https://www.rainn.org/statistics - There's sources down below.

It's not as small as you think off, sometimes simply reading the comment section of a news website is terrible - The case of the porn actress who got hit by the husband (hockey player or something like that) had lots of comments saying she deserved it because she was a slut and all of that.

I think we're talking past each other, in the sense that I have no problem with the views held by most feminists, which as I noted earlier are laudable in their thrust. It's only the radicals that irk me -- those who make a cottage industry of bashing anyone who doesn't accept their claims lock, stock, and barrel.

I agree with this

I like the term egalitarian as used above, and though I've never considered it as a descriptor for myself, I think I will start using it ... it describes my views succinctly and without baggage.

I am an egalitarian, a pro-feminism, pro-same-sex-equality, and generally pro equality for different groups of people who did nothing wrong b sides being born like that.

[Bad Wolf]

Have you ever tried to game as a female online? You should do that and see what kinds of hurtful bashful comments you may be exposed too just because you're gaming.

Absolute bullshit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAF2UmyXe-4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhPHFX3BLmc

[Losty]

If you are for equal rights, you're a feminist. That's all it really takes to be one. There are extremist in all stances.

I agree completely. Unfortunately, a lot of people fail to understand the basic definition of feminism (gender equality) and instead write off the entire movement.

But the problem (for me as like a terrible debater type person) is that in order to defend yourself as a feminist when people say oh you're one of those extremist feminazis it feels like you're turning theist using the no true feminist fallacy.

Why not just separate yourself from it altogether. Yes, we are here and we know the basic definitions, but at this point does it matter? The word has been tarnished and words, fluid as they are, take on new meanings over time.
I prefer to call myself an egalitarian. It's the same damn thing without the negative connotation.

[Dystopia]

As someone who shares his stance (I think), I have to say, you are too quick to take a dismissive tone towards terminology defining stances; after all, that is kind of the point. And me, personally, I use words to describe the positions I take. What a novel concept, right?

The defining terminology shouldn't be the number one reason for someone who takes a position, the truth is if feminism worked the same way it does and had a different word to describe it more people would identify as such.

It was called feminism because it meant to fight gender inequality, and actually, by the name itself, it is dismissive of men's issues and any other issues. By definition, it is about women first, and only women. It is not femitransgenderandronism, it is feminism. FEM. Inism. Femme. Female-ism.

(Bold mine) - It still is, the fact you don't realize it doesn't change anything

It's not dismissive of men's issues given that a significant number of rational feminists care about men's stereotypes, problems, issues and inequalities - Rational feminists don't want men to work for an outdated concept of masculinity, or to be circumcised at birth, or to be mocked for being raped - So is that not helping men? Have you actually read feminist literature, or feminist blogs, to understand that inter-sectional feminist, currently popular, cares about issues like gender equality but also homosexuals, transsexuals, men, animals, poor people, people of other races and other groups' equality?

There IS a distinction nowadays between feminism and egalitarianism, whether you like it or not, whether you wanna admit it or not. There is a reason why such differentiation is becoming a thing. It's not because it's trendy or hip or cool; we didn't become atheists because of those things, we didn't adopt the term because it sounds cool; we became atheists, and we take the term of atheists, because that is what we are. Feminism and egalitarianism are not the same thing, and those who are for actual gender equality are shifting their stance accordingly, because feminism is no longer about gender equality, and by its very name, it never was to begin with. Feminism was necessary and useful in bringing awareness to the issues in question, but now with the awareness achieved, we need to work towards making things equal, and it's not just women who are being discriminated against, and there's no reason nowadays to prioritize women over anyone else; man, woman, transgenderal/transsexual, gender-neutral, all should be equal, and it should no longer be a focus upon just one group when we are now all being made aware of inequalities across ALL regions of the issue.

(bold mine) - So what is feminism? An ideology to suppress and oppress men? Give me a break, the definition of feminism is fighting for gender equality.

Not useful? Awareness achieved? From the moment people still think both genders are completely equal just because the law says so, I think awareness doesn't exist to the extent you claim.

Feminists don't think women are the only group being discriminated against, like I said many fight for all kinds of inequalities - You can be an egalitarian, a feminists, a pro-gay marriage, pro-race equality person - Why does one position prevent the other?

Feminism focuses specifically on women's issues more prominently because between both genders (male and female) women are still the ones, worldwide and in the western world, with higher inequality and issues to be solved despite the effort frustrated males in reddit and tumblr make to ignore them. Feminism doesn't need to focus extensively on men's rights because despite what the MRA association says men are not being oppressed by women worldwide and there's no need to create a men's rights movement given that the status and social comfort of men in most places is reasonable and the issues it has are already addressed by both feminists and male activists against stereotypes. However feminism also focuses on other problems like I've stated already so your claim that feminism is gender centred and doesn't give a shit about anything else is a no brainer.

I'm an egalitarian, feminism is a part of my egalitarianism - you can be a feminist and not an egalitarian, since you may not care about other discriminated groups, but you can't be an egalitarian without supporting the feminist definition of gender equality.

[Losty]

Have you ever tried to game as a female online? You should do that and see what kinds of hurtful bashful comments you may be exposed too just because you're gaming.

Is anyone else imagining a really shy guy saying mean things with a big adorable blush on his face? :p

[Bad Wolf]

In case you don't know (probably don't) rational feminists are against gender biases in court.

Really? Then where was the uproar from feminists about this?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ng-16.html

Loren Morris, 21, was 16 when she first slept with the schoolboy, who cannot be identified, and continued until he was ten years old.

Morris, who has a child of her own, would have regular intercourse with the boy, now 14, and was only found out after he was overheard bragging about it at school.

A judge today gave Morris a two-year prison sentence at Worcester Crown Court, following a trial last month where she was convicted of three counts of sexual intercourse with a child under 16.

If the genders had been reversed, if a 16 year old boy had been raping an 8 year old girl and only got a two year prison sentance, there would be an absolute uproar. Everyone would be screaming for this boy to be linched. People have rioted over much less than this but there was none of that. No uproar, no calls for her head, no accusations of a biased justice system.

And notice how in the article, they never use the word 'rape'. Just 'intercourse' or 'sex'.

[Dystopia]

Loren Morris, 21, was 16 when she first slept with the schoolboy, who cannot be identified, and continued until he was ten years old.

Morris, who has a child of her own, would have regular intercourse with the boy, now 14, and was only found out after he was overheard bragging about it at school.

A judge today gave Morris a two-year prison sentence at Worcester Crown Court, following a trial last month where she was convicted of three counts of sexual intercourse with a child under 16.

If the genders had been reversed, if a 16 year old boy had been raping an 8 year old girl and only got a two year prison sentance, there would be an absolute uproar. Everyone would be screaming for this boy to be linched. People have rioted over much less than this but there was none of that. No uproar, no calls for her head, no accusations of a biased justice system.

And notice how in the article, they never use the word 'rape'. Just 'intercourse' or 'sex'.

And what makes you think in your mind that any rational feminist would agree with this? In my country, it has happened for men who raped little girls to be convicted to a 3 years suspended time (this means no jail) and it happened more than once - That's a problem of justice, not a problem with women or men in general - Paedophiles get light sentences everywhere. Lighter sentences for women is something feminism is opposed to, but of course your knowledge on the movement is so vast that you don't know that.



And if you really want a lesson on sexism and gaming that is not riddled with bullshit, watch this made by an actual male game critic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA2kHVMak0E