How to debate a Christian

[dreamer2008]

Hello, I am an atheist, and I love to challenge the faith of some people around me with the hope that maybe with a successful debate I can help some of them see how useless and harmful the religious institutions are. I had some success stories but most of the time religious people avoid conversation about this topic and just change the subject. This is one problem, I understand that for some people changing their beliefs is useless and harmful, if the stories from religion help them in their life and they can function like this without troubling others, okay, I leave them alone and try to understand them.

Some simply don't want or can't understand new ideas related to religion, there is mostly nothing that can be done about those.

But some people don't benefit from belief in a god, and makes them in general more inefficient and more dangerous in their daily lives, and they have enough intelligence to grasp new ideas and maybe transform themselves for the better but are jamming themselves, making religion a sensitive subject and want to avoid it. I want to know some methods on how I can penetrate this shell they made and maybe succeed in actively debating their point of view. Once a debate on this subject starts there is a chance of success.

And another problem is the text they use to close the conversation. Most of them are ignorable, but there is one that I don't feel that I can answer efficiently yet, and that is :"You didn't read the Bible so you can't talk about this subject". And the truth is I started to read this book a couple of years ago especially for this but I couldn't even finish Genesis, because its so silly, cruel, and simple that I didn't have the patience and stomach to continue, all that killing, incest, and that cruel, not so intelligent god were too much for me. So how can I answer to this statement so that I can continue on this subject?

[Zen Badger]

Ask them if they have actually read it themselves.

You'll find that most haven't.

P.s Hi

[dreamer2008]

Hi. Yes, some didn't read it, but the last person I talked to read it 3 times.

[LastPoet]

The thing is, you don't need to read the bible to debate christianity, just use reason and logic. Just begin with a simple question: What is your definition of god and where is the evidence that god exist?

You must ask for a definition first, because every christian has his own definition of god.

[AnunZi]

Also keep in mind that some religious types are so closed minded, so indoctrinated that they simply cannot accept any other possibility. That’s one of my main contentions with religious thinking.
I have my beliefs and I hold them quite strongly. However, I would like to think that I am not so arrogant that if evidence to the contrary was presented I would change my views. I accept the possibility that I may in fact be dead wrong.

[Eilonnwy]

If you want to be able to debate Christians I would first read and listen to as many debates as you can, to learn the debate tactics and understand the basic arguments. Learn the logically fallacies and if you don't want to read the Bible, you could read books on the Bible that aren't so dry and will point out the contradictions and problems in it for you. Jesus Interrupted is one such book that is an easy read and points out major issues with the gospels.

Reading the Bible is only necessary if you wish to argue Christianity within it's own mythology. You can take another avenue and explain why the Bible is not sufficient evidence for God and that's basically an exercise in circular reasoning. "The Bible is true because it says it's true" type BS.

Lastly, if you like to argue, that's great. I just recommend you do it with people who want to argue and enjoy it too, whether online or in person. Your opening sentence makes me think you're challenging friends, and if you want to keep them as friends, you might want to stop. (If I'm wrong about this ignore me.) Point is, I love my friends for who they are and have no need to challenge their beliefs unless they also would like to talk about it. Not many people do, and my friendship is not contingent on people agreeing with me (or I'd have no friends). So, I'm just saying consider who you're arguing with.

[Peter44]

Hello, I am an atheist, and I love to challenge the faith of some people around me with the hope that maybe with a successful debate I can help some of them see how useless and harmful the religious institutions are. I had some success stories but most of the time religious people avoid conversation about this topic and just change the subject. This is one problem, I understand that for some people changing their beliefs is useless and harmful, if the stories from religion help them in their life and they can function like this without troubling others, okay, I leave them alone and try to understand them.

Some simply don't want or can't understand new ideas related to religion, there is mostly nothing that can be done about those.

But some people don't benefit from belief in a god, and makes them in general more inefficient and more dangerous in their daily lives, and they have enough intelligence to grasp new ideas and maybe transform themselves for the better but are jamming themselves, making religion a sensitive subject and want to avoid it. I want to know some methods on how I can penetrate this shell they made and maybe succeed in actively debating their point of view. Once a debate on this subject starts there is a chance of success.

And another problem is the text they use to close the conversation. Most of them are ignorable, but there is one that I don't feel that I can answer efficiently yet, and that is :"You didn't read the Bible so you can't talk about this subject". And the truth is I started to read this book a couple of years ago especially for this but I couldn't even finish Genesis, because its so silly, cruel, and simple that I didn't have the patience and stomach to continue, all that killing, incest, and that cruel, not so intelligent god were too much for me. So how can I answer to this statement so that I can continue on this subject?

I am not sure a belief in a God can be dented by debate. Debate suggests the use of evidence?

Faith ignores evidence as it doesn't need it. Therefore God or a belief in one is not a suitable topic for debate.

I have read the Bible although not recently and I cant remember any part of it that inspired a belief in a deity. It really did seem to be a mismatch of selected writings dated and often superficial.

What the Bible did do for me is inspire me to learn more about the Jews (I have a Jewish grandfather).
This really was a bit of an eye opener because if there is one group of people on the earth that have reason to disbelieve in a God its the Jews.
This so called chosen group, race, nation (whatever they are) has been the most persecuted group history has ever reported.

They came out of Samaria settled in Canaan were destroyed and taken as slaves into Egypt. Escaped back to Canaan killed everyone they could lay their hands on when they arrived (on the orders of their God).
Within a relatively short period of time they were defeated by the Babylonians. Those that were left and it wasn't many, were taken as slaves to Babylon (Iraq).
They were released many years later had wars amongst themselves and then were defeated by the Romans. In the end (70BC) the Romans slaughtered them sent them packing out of Canaan.
Even that want enough the residual Jews many in Europe were further persecuted during the 10th and 11th century and beyond through Europe as murders of Jesus.
Over a thousand men women and children were massacred in Clifford's Tower in my home town of York (UK). This was repeated all over the place.

Obviously the Bible played a large part in this as its only in that book that the Jews get the blame. The fact that Jesus was a Jew (and never claimed even in the Bible, to be anything else) doesn't seem to mean a lot.

Even that wasn't enough the the Nazi's in took a hand and wiped out another 6 million. Yet still they believe God has chosen them !!

The God of the Jews is of course nothing like the God of the Christians. One, the Jewish one is a vengeful God of the old school. The Christian one is a loving wonderful God who cares for everyone!! There couldn't be much more of a divergence yet one religion is 'based ' on the other!!

From a historical point of view the Bible (New Testament) doesn't really support the ministry of Jesus known as Christ. Its really a Paulian based myth. The Christian bit is lost in the rhetoric of the gospels and letters most of which are products of Paul or Paul's followers.

I think there is lot about the Bible that could be learned in a focused way (using history) to address the subject without having to plow through the whole load of drivel.

Perhaps we could have a topic based purely on the Bible and its criticisms?

[dreamer2008]

If you want to be able to debate Christians I would first read and listen to as many debates as you can, to learn the debate tactics and understand the basic arguments. Learn the logically fallacies and if you don't want to read the Bible, you could read books on the Bible that aren't so dry and will point out the contradictions and problems in it for you. Jesus Interrupted is one such book that is an easy read and points out major issues with the gospels.

Reading the Bible is only necessary if you wish to argue Christianity within it's own mythology. You can take another avenue and explain why the Bible is not sufficient evidence for God and that's basically an exercise in circular reasoning. "The Bible is true because it says it's true" type BS.

Lastly, if you like to argue, that's great. I just recommend you do it with people who want to argue and enjoy it too, whether online or in person. Your opening sentence makes me think you're challenging friends, and if you want to keep them as friends, you might want to stop. (If I'm wrong about this ignore me.) Point is, I love my friends for who they are and have no need to challenge their beliefs unless they also would like to talk about it. Not many people do, and my friendship is not contingent on people agreeing with me (or I'd have no friends). So, I'm just saying consider who you're arguing with.

Thank you for this really good advice. Yes, a friend is involved, but I wouldn't want to debate him for now because of exactly what you said, I wouldn't want to force topics they don't like. And although he is open for debate, for now I don't have the tools to win a debate with him about this, so its on hold. But most of the time I debate with people in my surroundings and mainly in this topic and I wanted a solution on how I can debate them without being forced to read the Bible.

But a solution that you mention about reading books on the Bible came from someone at another atheist forum I posted on, and actually with this I can actually read this silly Book and that is Skeptic Annotated Bible. With this I can finally have patience to read the whole thing and I see that the Quran is there also so it will mean a little more fun for me.

[leo-rcc]

Be sure to check out websites like http://www.carm.org. It is a valuable source for Christian apologetics.

Last piece of advice. Be prepared to admit defeat.

Debates are hardly ever about being right, but about being the best debater and coming across as the more convincing. Some Christian apologists have this down to an art.

[lrh9]

From my experience debate and discussion is a waste of time period.

I keep my interactions with people (theist or atheist) simple:

1) Stick to the facts. (Things that can be observationally or historically proven.)
2) Be prepared to defend self and enforce policy with force if necessary.
3) Keep interactions brief, but no less than necessary or desirable.
4) Control the interaction. It is your right and responsibility to walk away in public or leave their home or business whenever you want to, and it is your right and responsibility to make them leave your home whenever you want to.