Are you an Islamophobe?

[robvalue]

Passive as in not killing or threatening people.

Maybe violent and non-violent Islam then?

I accept this distinction, I gladly welcome peaceful secularist Muslims in the west. A problem with this is answering the question "who's violent?" - For example, a Muslim who thinks gays should be executed but doesn't protest or actively seek to implement that measure - Is this person violent?

Yeah, that's difficult. I don't claim it would be an easy distinction! In a very rule of thumb way I would say such thoughts and beliefs alone would not be considered violent, but the willingness to act on them is. Of course, put such a non-violent muslim in a different context and you may see a violent Muslim. But I think we have to accept that secularism can muzzle religion effectively... so those which grudgingly abide by secular laws would be non violent, those that try and impose sharia regardless and do their own shit I'd call violent.

[RobertE]

One other thing that could persuade people to dislike Islam could be the fact that these people are capable of killing their own flesh and blood. Farzana Iqbal is one of those who was stoned to death by her family whilst she was pregnant. I don't think even Catholics do this, in spite of the other barbaric things they do.

In that kind of culture some primitive actions are needed to keep the stability of the middle eastern region. Saddam Hussein& Muammar gaddafi, in the case of these men, yes they were butchers and evil, but they did know how to control a radical population. You can't walk into a region and expect to make them peaceful and united through a military front. Peace by force is not peace it's a perversion of the peace process.
Now, as far this woman being stoned to death and yes Catholics they do actions similar to them. Shaming and dis-owning there children who were impregnated without being married. Think about it; being a teen, and being pregnet this is a nightmare case already; add the shaming of your parents and community then being dis-owned and thrown out. That's almost like being stoned death in the west.

So, disowning their daughters for getting pregnant without being married is like being stoned to death...? Nope, I cannot see the comparison to be honest. Whatever happens, if the woman gets disowned, there is still a small chance that they could reconciliate a few years down the line. However, if you stone your own daughter to death, then the possibilities of reconciliation have long since gone. It is a stone age practice and should get in line with the 21st fecking century. You lost a little bit of credibility just by trying to compare the two.

[Dystopia]

In that kind of culture some primitive actions are needed to keep the stability of the middle eastern region. Saddam Hussein& Muammar gaddafi, in the case of these men, yes they were butchers and evil, but they did know how to control a radical population. You can't walk into a region and expect to make them peaceful and united through a military front. Peace by force is not peace it's a perversion of the peace process.
Now, as far this woman being stoned to death and yes Catholics they do actions similar to them. Shaming and dis-owning there children who were impregnated without being married. Think about it; being a teen, and being pregnet this is a nightmare case already; add the shaming of your parents and community then being dis-owned and thrown out. That's almost like being stoned death in the west.

So, disowning their daughters for getting pregnant without being married is like being stoned to death...? Nope, I cannot see the comparison to be honest. Whatever happens, if the woman gets disowned, there is still a small chance that they could reconciliate a few years down the line. However, if you stone your own daughter to death, then the possibilities of reconciliation have long since gone. It is a stone age practice and should get in line with the 21st fecking century. You lost a little bit of credibility just by trying to compare the two.

I don't see the point here, for any problem it's possible to find a significant worse one, but disowning your daughter for making use of her free agency is terrible and primitive, b sides being sexist and misogynistic

[RobertE]

You don't see the point? It is terrible and primitive, but comparing disowning to stoning your own flesh and blood is apples and oranges and again, all credibility is lost.

[Dystopia]

The two are different but one doesn't invalidate the other, i.e. Disowning daughters is a valid problem even if there are larger problems.

[RobertE]

So, disowning their daughters for getting pregnant without being married is like being stoned to death...? Nope, I cannot see the comparison to be honest. Whatever happens, if the woman gets disowned, there is still a small chance that they could reconciliate a few years down the line. However, if you stone your own daughter to death, then the possibilities of reconciliation have long since gone. It is a stone age practice and should get in line with the 21st fecking century. You lost a little bit of credibility just by trying to compare the two.

I don't see the point here, for any problem it's possible to find a significant worse one, but disowning your daughter for making use of her free agency is terrible and primitive, b sides being sexist and misogynistic

The two are different but one doesn't invalidate the other, i.e. Disowning daughters is a valid problem even if there are larger problems.

Again, I agree, both are morally wrong, only in one sense can there be some sort of reconciliation. With Islam, if a woman dares to love another man other than the one that has been hand-picked by her father, then she will be killed, and the media love to play devils advocate by calling it a honour killing, when it is murder, plain and simple. So, add that to the number of cases of pedophilia, especially in Rotherham, and we really have to say that Islam is just that little bit more despicable and barbaric than Catholicism.

[jesus_wept]

One other thing that could persuade people to dislike Islam could be the fact that these people are capable of killing their own flesh and blood. Farzana Iqbal is one of those who was stoned to death by her family whilst she was pregnant. I don't think even Catholics do this, in spite of the other barbaric things they do.

In that kind of culture some primitive actions are needed to keep the stability of the middle eastern region. Saddam Hussein& Muammar gaddafi, in the case of these men, yes they were butchers and evil, but they did know how to control a radical population. You can't walk into a region and expect to make them peaceful and united through a military front. Peace by force is not peace it's a perversion of the peace process.
Now, as far this woman being stoned to death and yes Catholics they do actions similar to them. Shaming and dis-owning there children who were impregnated without being married. Think about it; being a teen, and being pregnet this is a nightmare case already; add the shaming of your parents and community then being dis-owned and thrown out. That's almost like being stoned death in the west.

If you had the choice between being stoned to death or disowned, which would you choose?

[RobertE]

In that kind of culture some primitive actions are needed to keep the stability of the middle eastern region. Saddam Hussein& Muammar gaddafi, in the case of these men, yes they were butchers and evil, but they did know how to control a radical population. You can't walk into a region and expect to make them peaceful and united through a military front. Peace by force is not peace it's a perversion of the peace process.
Now, as far this woman being stoned to death and yes Catholics they do actions similar to them. Shaming and dis-owning there children who were impregnated without being married. Think about it; being a teen, and being pregnet this is a nightmare case already; add the shaming of your parents and community then being dis-owned and thrown out. That's almost like being stoned death in the west.

If you had the choice between being stoned to death or disowned, which would you choose?

I don't know what his response would be to be fair. As far as killing their own children, this is comparable to infanticide in the animal world, it is that primitive. However, the animal has its reasons for doing this. However, human beings on the otherhand are capable of thought processes and as such, should be able to tell the difference between what is right and what is wrong, what is moral, and what is immoral. Islam, with its honour killings is clearly immoral. Finally, to have the choice between stoned to death or being disowned, I would rather be disowned, since we may have the chance later on to reconcile our differences.

[robvalue]

I would choose a compromise, and be disowned to death.

[Sterben]

Sorry, I've been busy today first time I had to chance to get on and reply back.

My point was we in the west do similar actions to "Stoning", I compared being dis-owned and being stoned to death, in the example a teen girl is shamed and dis-owned by her family, were can she turn? A halfway house, a homeless shelter? Not much of a life, then add the piling medical debt cause she was taught abortion is wrong. This 16 year girl has to deal with possible child, little education, and no support from family. Yes there is chance she may be ok, but it's unlikely, the consent thoughts of "What if" always running through her head. As she get's older after working shitty job's, in debt up to eye balls, and struggling to live and support a child even with help of a government program. Her goal's and life will most likely never being for-filled. Only to die dealing the guilt and shame she was taught as young girl, always being punished by her so called God which supposedly "loves her". That was point I was trying to make, being the equivalent of being stoned to death, expect in the west it's smaller stones being thrown over a life time, then big ones that would kill her.