Churches losing membership four times faster than they are gaining it

[dyresand]

The old coots will be beating each other over the heads with their canes and walkers in the name of jeebus.

When Pat Robertson dies he is dragging Christianity along with him.

[KevinM1]

As society continues to move forward, the church not only doesn't follow, but it openly and actively regresses. Acceptance of LGBT individuals is on the rise -- church aggressively attacks gay marriage. Abortion is becomig more popular -- church bans abortion. Means of contraception are easily accessible -- church says condoms are bad... and so on.

Yeah, that is an interesting quirk of human psychology, isn't it? When an ideological group loses members and power, the problem is seen as one of ideological purity. To them, the church isn't waning because its teachings and explanations are quickly becoming unpalatable, but because they strayed from the core message (gasp!) and allowed people with questionable loyalties to open the doors to those that might seek to harm the group through their subversive ways.

So, it becomes a race to the No True Scotsman bottom, as each wave of purges and doubling down on the vile produces the exact opposite result they hope for. I'd be lying if I didn't say it was fun to watch.

It's just another one of those things that makes me shake my head and chuckle when it comes to Christers. In America, the most devout also tend to be those firmly planted in "America: fuck yeah!" They always whine about their liberties and freedoms being taken away. Yet, often in the same breath, they lavish their god-king with praise, and eagerly await the day they'll join his post-death monarchy. Freedom now, serfdom in the afterlife. It's hilarious.

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The old coots will be beating each other over the heads with their canes and walkers in the name of jeebus.

When Pat Robertson dies he is dragging Christianity along with him.

Nah, Pat Robertson doesn't hold nearly as much power as he once did. The new face(s) of Christianity are the megachurch pastors, like Osteen. They're the ones raking in the cash.

[robvalue]

It makes me laugh how the afterlife, the foundation of the carrot and stick keeping the whole thing going, is something barely anyone can agree on. It goes as far as some people saying there is no hell or you just get destroyed, to those who believe in unlimited suffering. That's about as big a difference as you could get.

Scientific knowledge converges, religious nonsense diverges.

[KevinM1]

It makes me laugh how the afterlife, the foundation of the carrot and stick keeping the whole thing going, is something barely anyone can agree on. It goes as far as some people saying there is no hell or you just get destroyed, to those who believe in unlimited suffering. That's about as big a difference as you could get.

Scientific knowledge converges, religious nonsense diverges.

And it's not just the afterlife.

How does god judge? Is believing in it more important than good works? Less? Is there a special pass for those that never heard of the Christian god?

What is the exact nature of god? Is it one entity? A pantheon of three? Some weird combination?

Shit, there's debate about whether or not Jesus' arrival essentially eradicated the OT, or if his decrees/behavior were presented as a separate, exceptional (meaning, an exception to) path from the OT, or other possibilities.

If the religion was clear, there wouldn't be 40,000 sects in Christianity alone, with disagreements found within each.

[Mister Agenda]

My own in-depth research (in the UK/ England & Wales) actually puts this massive drop in attendance here to way back in the 60s and last generation's revolt against the religious conservatism of their parents.

Then let the cohort effect take hold and you have a situation where children today are even less likely to espouse a religion than their parents.

The globalisation of knowledge has put religious claims under more scrutiny than ever. In the marketplace of ideas, at least in Western and Northern Europe, those ideas are - Edit - I initially said losing, but actually it would be more accurate to say they are found unconvincing when compared to the alternatives.

There's a common wisdom that the USA tends to run about 50 years behind Western Europe in cultural trends.

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A lot of our Christian visitors seem blissfully unaware of this trend. It's not unusual for them to point out that we are barely hanging on, or to offer 'advice' on how to increase our numbers, since we're clearly doing it wrong.

[robvalue]

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

40,000 sets of people shouting out, "No, I'm right and you're all wrong" and that's just in one of the "true" religions.

When I was doing my maths, if there was 40,000 different answers to a question none of which could be demonstrated to be even slightly true, I would have thought there was something fundamentally wrong.

Let's all help religion on its way.

[vorlon13]

The old coots will be beating each other over the heads with their canes and walkers in the name of jeebus.

When Pat Robertson dies he is dragging Christianity along with him.

Robertson's death is the start of the end of the Robertsonites.

He already has announced he isn't Literalist, so he's an apostate. He has made several other flubs regarding dogma too.

[Ravenshire]

That is a factor as well, but far from the whole story. It's likely an additional accelerator, but the trend of each generation being less religious than the previous one has been going on since the forties.

True, but the trend-breaking upward spike of the "nones" in the recent decade or so is (in my opinion, anyway) directly linked to mass information technology like the internet.

There's also the simple fact that the more outspoken dissent there is, the less fear there is of being known as a dissenter. It's hard when you're the only one calling out the bullshit. It's a lot easier when you've got a group around you.

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I'm not optimistic enough to believe organized relgion will disappear completely, but there is hope that it will be reduced into a minority.

And good riddance.

I can see mainstream christianity becoming in the near future (50-100 years) much like the Amish and Quaker beliefs today. Quaint religions practiced by a segment of population so small that inbreeding is a real concern.

[AFTT47]

It makes me laugh how the afterlife, the foundation of the carrot and stick keeping the whole thing going, is something barely anyone can agree on. It goes as far as some people saying there is no hell or you just get destroyed, to those who believe in unlimited suffering. That's about as big a difference as you could get.

And it's not just the afterlife.

How does god judge? Is believing in it more important than good works? Less? Is there a special pass for those that never heard of the Christian god?

If the religion was clear, there wouldn't be 40,000 sects in Christianity alone, with disagreements found within each.

Great points. It's a train wreck. Disagreements on the details should be expected but when you can't agree on the fundamentals...what have you got?

It's a strong argument: Do you really have a religion?

[robvalue]

What you have is a bunch of people all claiming faith is a way to knowledge and getting totally different answers.