Christian "faith" vs. plain "faith"

[Huggy Bear]

So, Huggy, what do you believe that is different from the usual understanding of evolution? Christians often develop creative ways to fit the square peg of biblical inerrancy into the round hole of paleontology, geology, etc. (Of course if you don't want to go into detail that is fine too. I understand it might be too hard to explain.)

Let's take Wikipedia as the standard:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

I may have to get back to you on that, I've explained my position in numerous threads, Just don't feel like rehashing it at the moment.

[FatAndFaithless]

Huggy, the scientific theory of evolution includes common ancestry as one of its foundational points. You do not accept common ancestry; you do not accept the scientific theory of evolution. At least say that.

[watchamadoodle]

I've said repeatedly that a species EVOLVES from itself, that is still evolution. If you think we all evolved from a single organism, provide the proof.

If you believe that a species evolves, then you effectively believe in evolution, because the tree of life is the natural implication of each species evolving. If you have a ring species where individuals in different regions have different adaptations, then that ring species can be cut in two pieces that evolve independently. That gives you two species. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species )

[FatAndFaithless]

I've said repeatedly that a species EVOLVES from itself, that is still evolution. If you think we all evolved from a single organism, provide the proof.

If you believe that a species evolves, then you effectively believe in evolution, because the tree of life is the natural implication of each species evolving. If you have a ring species where individuals in different regions have different adaptations, then that ring species can be cut in two pieces that evolve independently. That gives you two species. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species )

He's saying that new species do not emerge. It's not evolution.

[downbeatplumb]

Umm... you are aware that Romans was written by "some random man off the street," right?

Paul was just some random Guy off the street?
The guy whose letters are the foundation of Christianity, was just some random guy?
The Guy who was tutored by Gamaliel, was just some random guy off the street?
The guy who persecuted the early Christians and had a miraculous conversion, was just some random guy off the street.
The guy who was imprisoned, beaten, and eventually beheaded for his beliefs, was just some random guy off the street?

How come I'm just finding this out now

Low levels of education?

"If I pretend evolution is something that it isn't, I accept evolution!"

But under a real understanding of evolution and not Huggy's Imagination Funtimes, you deny evolution.

And you do so, in fact, by shifting the burden of proof: since it's an established fact that species change, you are positing the existence of a mechanism that would stop that before the organism changes too much, and that's something you need to provide proof for. Otherwise, the thing we've observed to happen will keep happening.

No no, if you saying that we indeed have evolved from a single source, provide the proof. You're saying I'm denying evolution because I don't agree with that position.

Balls in your court baby...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent

Evidence of common descent of living organisms has been found by scientists working in a variety of fields over many decades and has demonstrated common descent and that life on earth developed from a last universal ancestor, that evolution does occur, and is able to show the natural processes by which the biodiversity of life on Earth developed. This evidence supports the modern evolutionary synthesis, the current scientific theory that explains how and why life changes over time. Evolutionary biologists document evidence of common descent through making testable predictions, testing hypotheses, and developing theories that illustrate and describe its causes.

[Esquilax]

He's saying that new species do not emerge. It's not evolution.

By that logic he must also think that you can never walk a mile by taking single steps. Or that you can never hit the ground by falling via gravity. Or that no matter how much you heat something up you'll never get over a hundred degrees.

[watchamadoodle]

If you believe that a species evolves, then you effectively believe in evolution, because the tree of life is the natural implication of each species evolving. If you have a ring species where individuals in different regions have different adaptations, then that ring species can be cut in two pieces that evolve independently. That gives you two species. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species )

He's saying that new species do not emerge. It's not evolution.

I used to share Huggy's outlook on evolution - not for dogmatic reasons - but simply due to an over-simplified and distorted view of how chromosomes and reproduction work. It was hard for me to visualize how an individual organism with a longer or shorter chromosome could mate with a "normal" organism, and I was even more confused about the mechanism that would cause the number of chromosomes to change. As I delved into the details, I began to realize that chromosomes and DNA are much more fault-tolerant than I originally thought. That gave me more confidence that evolution could explain everything.

So I can certainly understand how a person can have Huggy's outlook. I had to go through a maze of internet articles about biology with all those confusing words and concepts to satisfy myself. I forgot most of what I learned, because it was so hard to keep it all straight in my mind. It was very interesting though.

[FatAndFaithless]

He's saying that new species do not emerge. It's not evolution.

I used to share Huggy's outlook on evolution - not for dogmatic reasons - but simply due to an over-simplified and distorted view of how chromosomes and reproduction work. It was hard for me to visualize how an individual organism with a longer or shorter chromosome could mate with a "normal" organism, and I was even more confused about the mechanism that would cause the number of chromosomes to change. As I delved into the details, I began to realize that chromosome and DNA are much more fault-tolerant than I originally thought. That gave me more confidence that evolution could explain everything.

Delving into research and details and evidence is what a reasonable person (like yourself) would do. Something Huggy adamantly and obstinately refuses to do in any honest way.

[Mudhammam]

Paul was just some random Guy off the street?
The guy whose letters are the foundation of Christianity, was just some random guy?
The Guy who was tutored by Gamaliel, was just some random guy off the street?
The guy who persecuted the early Christians and had a miraculous conversion, was just some random guy off the street.
The guy who was imprisoned, beaten, and eventually beheaded for his beliefs, was just some random guy off the street?

How come I'm just finding this out now

You mean the man whom, outside of his project of founding churches and espousing Christian doctrines as a former Jew, you know virtually nothing else about---such as his father, mother, siblings, upbringing, lifestyle, philosophy, or general opinions about science and politics and other "worldly" affairs? Yeah, that's the guy.

[Ravenshire]

[crickets]




As I suspected...

Your nonsensical comment didn't warrant a response.

Are you saying you'd accept my word for it? because that's the only way I could relay my experience to you...

Then it's not evidence and claiming it as such is a lie.