Moral Compass

[Joods]

Welcome Lakul. I hope you can use some of the resources other members have given you. Stick around... you've got friends here.

[robvalue]

Heya welcome You're very enlightened, you already have a great analysis! Those two quotes at the end are on the money.

If you want to point out how "religious morality" is nonsense, go to them with a list of things the bible says you should do and ask why they don't do any of them. Such as:

If someone picks up sticks on a Sunday, they should be stoned to death.
You're allowed to buy slaves, and to beat them up as long as they don't die.
If children are being unruly, they should be taken outside the city and stoned to death.
If an unmarried woman is raped, the woman is forced to marry the rapist. His only punishment is to give a small payment to her father.

I could go on forever. What religious people do is follow their holy book when it agrees with them and ignore it when it doesn't. Or make ridiculous nonsense arguments as to why they don't have to do those things anymore, because they know better than God. So really, they are just using their own morality just like an atheist would, but claiming religious righteousness when it lines up with them. The worst part is that religion can make a good person do a bad thing, something they would otherwise think is wrong, through the pressure of religion making them thinking it must be done.

As for homosexuality... as I'm sure you're aware, as any half-intelligent honest person knows, it's not a choice. It's entirely genetic. We are born that way, it's been scientifically demonstrated for a long time now. And of course there is nothing wrong with it. If they really think it is a choice, then to actually know this, they must have chosen themself to be gay at some point, at least long enough to convince them it is possible. Have they done that I wonder? You can get any number of resources to back up this being genetic and they are absolutely full of shit. Let us know if you need any help with links and so on

Good luck and enjoy the forum!

[Little Rik]

I had similar problems with my parents when they were alive.
I try to show them that God could not possibly create a permanent hell
of fire or give an eternal punishment and other things but the advise never 
register into their brains.
Just a waste of time.
When you grow up you tend not to change your lifetime believes.
Nevertheless i would confront again and again dogmatic people.
In fact this is what i am doing right now in this forum.
Dogmas or false truth do not belong only to religion.
There are all sort of dogmas.
Political, economics, nationalists, atheists and so on and on. 

[Mister Agenda]

For what it's worth, the Christians who think they would go around raping and murdering if not for their obedience to Jesus are almost always not nearly as bad as they've been taught that they are.

[downbeatplumb]

I had similar problems with my parents when they were alive.
I try to show them that God could not possibly create a permanent hell
of fire or give an eternal punishment and other things but the advise never 
register into their brains.
Just a waste of time.
When you grow up you tend not to change your lifetime believes.
Nevertheless i would confront again and again dogmatic people.
In fact this is what i am doing right now in this forum.
Dogmas or false truth do not belong only to religion.
There are all sort of dogmas.
Political, economics, nationalists, atheists and so on and on. 

atheists don't agree with people who think there is a god. There is no dogma.

[Simon Moon]

And so, I VERY much want to have a conversation with my parents to get across this simple point:

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you're told.
Religion is doing what you're told, regardless of what is right.

Here's a real world example of this concept.

Two sets of parents take their child to nice restaurants. Both children act up and are disturbing to the other restaurant patrons, decreasing the enjoyment of their meals.

One set of parents threaten  their child with punishment next time they act up in public.

The other set of parents talk to their child, explaining that all the other people are at the restaurant to enjoy a nice meal, and their behavior ruined the other patron's night out with their family and friends. They then ask their child how they would feel if someone disturbed their enjoyment by being so disruptive.

A week later, both sets of parents take their child to restaurants again. The first set of parent remind their child of the punishment they will receive if they misbehave again. The second set remind their child how bad they would feel if someone ruined their good time by misbehaving around them. 

Both children behave themselves.

The question is, which child is more moral? 

And if both children are in a similar situation in the future, but their parents are not around, which child is more likely to behave well?

[downbeatplumb]

Where can you get a moral compass. I 've looked on Amazon....

[Little Rik]

I had similar problems with my parents when they were alive.
I try to show them that God could not possibly create a permanent hell
of fire or give an eternal punishment and other things but the advise never 
register into their brains.
Just a waste of time.
When you grow up you tend not to change your lifetime believes.
Nevertheless i would confront again and again dogmatic people.
In fact this is what i am doing right now in this forum.
Dogmas or false truth do not belong only to religion.
There are all sort of dogmas.
Political, economics, nationalists, atheists and so on and on. 

atheists don't agree with people who think there is a god. There is no dogma.

I never said that what you mention is a dogma.
One atheist dogma is to expect physical evidence about something that may not be physical like an hypothetical God.
One more atheist dogma is to expect an hypothetical God to show up to someone (an atheist) that is not interested in knowing Him.
An other funny atheist dogma is to pretend that the consciousness that we got is just a case, nothing therefore to imply that this consciousness has been 
achieve after long long hard work.
Even religious people believe that the manna fall from the sky as a God gift.   

[downbeatplumb]

atheists don't agree with people who think there is a god. There is no dogma.

I never said that what you mention is a dogma.

But that is all that is needed to be an atheist oh you have more.

One atheist dogma is to expect physical evidence about something that may not be physical like an hypothetical God.

Not required actually to be an atheist. All we need to do is not find the arguments convincing.
Personally I like evidence with my facts. But it seems some people aren't so fussy.

 
One more atheist dogma is to expect an hypothetical God to show up to someone (an atheist) that is not interested in knowing Him.

I have zero expectation of this just as I don't expect a visit from the actual easter bunny.
You don't even have the start of a point here.

An other funny atheist dogma is to pretend that the consciousness that we got is just a case, nothing therefore to imply that this consciousness has been 
achieve after long long hard work.

I don't understand what you are saying here. Please try to make your points coherent so I can laugh at them properly.

Even religious people believe that the manna fall from the sky as a God gift. 

 

what are you talking about?

[Little Rik]

But that is all that is needed to be an atheist oh you have more.

Not required actually to be an atheist. All we need to do is not find the arguments convincing.
Personally I like evidence with my facts. But it seems some people aren't so fussy.


I have zero expectation of this just as I don't expect a visit from the actual easter bunny.
You don't even have the start of a point here.


I don't understand what you are saying here. Please try to make your points coherent so I can laugh at them properly.

 

what are you talking about?

I thought you knew the story about the MANNA.
When the Israelites left Egypt and wander through the desert they were sort of starving so they complained with Moses (their leader).
The Lord told Moses that He would “rain bread from heaven” for them...........and bread fall from the sky according to the legend.
They called this food the MANNA.
Now i just wanted to show you that the atheist expectation that the consciousness that human being got according to you is like the MANNA
or a miracle that fall on us human being.
Unfortunately the life teach us that everything that we got has been conquered with hard work.
Nothing come for free so to believe that we never existed before and not having been through so many reincarnation in order to achieve this consciousness is none but a dogma.


http://www.sharefaith.com/guide/christia...manna.html