Good God

[yuriythebest]

Is religion organized? yes
Can religion do bad things? yes
Can religion do good things? yes
Can people organize themselves without religion? yes
Can people organize themselves and do good things without religion? yes
Can people organize themselves and do bad things without religion? yes

as such, I find this topic meaningless as people can do both good and bad things with or without religion. (may be my confirmation bias, but I'd say somewhat more bad things "with" religion )

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Welcome, I hope you have fun..

So I've decided to actively look for the good that religion does.

There are a great many good people who do a great many good things,who also happen to be religious. Same goes for atheists.

I like your idea to a point:I don't care about the personal superstitions of others,and lack the arrogance to believe my way is best. I support teaching children (and adults) to think independently. I do not support them being inculcated with any particular belief system or world view.

I urge caution to avoid confusing correlation and causation.

[Minimalist]

I wouldn't be that cynical.

You'll learn. Watching the difference between what these pious bastards "say" and what they "do" will lead you to it.

[gargantuan]

I'm reminded of the adage that trying to organise atheists is like trying to herd cats.

The point I'm trying to address is that we have religion, fact. That religion undeniably has an effect on the world. Yes, if it wasn't around, people would still do stuff, but it is around and it makes people do stuff. I'm not trying to debate the relative merits of a good deed done in the name of religion vs a good deed done for the sake of it, rather, what "mechanical advantage" religion presents with respect to getting things done, and has there ever been a time that a fellow atheist has considered this a good thing?

The argument that religion is not necessary for people to do good things is trite and demonstrably false. There are people out there in the world who wouldn't lift a finger to help another human being in toruble, but would walk to the ends of the earth to impress a priest.

[LastPoet]

I don't agree religion is necessary to do charity, it may be sufficient, but definately not necessary. I think you are switching the antecedent with the consequent on that last proposition. For religion to be necessary to do good things then people that weren't religious wouldn't do good things.

[gargantuan]

...then people that weren't religious wouldn't do good things.

Yes, to a degree, because not all religious people are good people. There's the famous quote form Stephen Weinberg

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

The same is true in reverse, albeit somewhat rarer; Religion can make evil people do good things. As can any number of other factors such as money, love, fear etc...

But I can't stress the point enough. We have religion, we can't deny that. As an atheist, I would love to live in a world free of religion, but that's not going to happen any time soon. So the question that remains is, why do I want to live in a world without religion...? Because I want the world to be a better place! Ok, so if we can't get rid of religion overnight, how can it be used to our advantage?

I fear that the Athesist argument against religion full stop is equivalent to a general forsaking the advantage of higher ground in a battle because he objects to hills in principle.

I don't believe in God, but if I can manipulate someone else's belief to make the world a better place, I sure as shit would. And consider that people have no problem manipulating religious beliefs to make the world a worse place. They're enjoying the benefit of a very powerful tool that we as Atheists refuse to use, to our own detriment. It's insane.