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Dark influence on the hearts and implanting locks regarding the Quran.
#11
RE: Dark influence on the hearts and implanting locks regarding the Quran.
Observation sample 1: Age of marriage in Quran.

The word for marriage in Arabic is nikah. Nikah apparent meaning in Quran through out is marriage. It makes sense when it states "this is the age of nikah", we don't assume nikah is some ambiguous subtle meaning of the word but refers to the apparent meaning: marriage.

The Quran states:

وَابْتَلُوا الْيَتَامَىٰ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغُوا النِّكَاحَ فَإِنْ آنَسْتُمْ مِنْهُمْ رُشْدًا فَادْفَعُوا إِلَيْهِمْ أَمْوَالَهُمْ ۖ وَلَا تَأْكُلُوهَا إِسْرَافًا وَبِدَارًا أَنْ يَكْبَرُوا ۚ وَمَنْ كَانَ غَنِيًّا فَلْيَسْتَعْفِفْ ۖ وَمَنْ كَانَ فَقِيرًا فَلْيَأْكُلْ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ ۚ فَإِذَا دَفَعْتُمْ إِلَيْهِمْ أَمْوَالَهُمْ فَأَشْهِدُوا عَلَيْهِمْ ۚ وَكَفَىٰ بِاللَّهِ حَسِيبًا 
 
The term used in the above verse, 4:6 is 'balagh-un-Nikah' which means when one is baligh enough for nikah.
 
[Pickthal 4:6] Prove orphans till they reach the marriageable age; then, if ye find them of sound judgment, deliver over unto them their fortune; and devour it not by squandering and in haste lest they should grow up Whoso (of the guardians) is rich, let him abstain generously (from taking of the property of orphans); and whoso is poor let him take thereof in reason (for his guardianship). And when ye deliver up their fortune unto orphans, have (the transaction) witnessed in their presence. Allah sufficeth as a Reckoner.
 

[Yusufali 4:6] Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of marriage; if then ye find sound judgment in them, release their property to them; but consume it not wastefully, nor in haste against their growing up. If the guardian is well-off, Let him claim no remuneration, but if he is poor, let him have for himself what is just and reasonable. When ye release their property to them, take witnesses in their presence: But all-sufficient is Allah in taking account. 


وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا مَالَ الْيَتِيمِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ حَتَّىٰ يَبْلُغَ أَشُدَّهُ ۚ وَأَوْفُوا بِالْعَهْدِ ۖ إِنَّ الْعَهْدَ كَانَ مَسْئُولًا

[Shakir 17:34] And draw not near to the property of the orphan except in a goodly way till he attains his maturity and fulfill the promise; surely (every) promise shall be questioned about.
[Pickthal 17:34] Come not near the wealth of the orphan save with that which is better till he come to strength; and keep the covenant. Lo! of the covenant it will be asked.
[Yusufali 17:34] Come not nigh to the orphan's property except to improve it, until he attains the age of full strength; and fulfil (every) engagement, for (every) engagement will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).


 

وَلَا تَقْرَبُوا مَالَ الْيَتِيمِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ حَتَّىٰ يَبْلُغَ أَشُدَّهُ ۖ

[Shakir 6:152] And do not approach the property of the orphan except in the best manner until he attains his maturity, and give full measure and weight with justice-- 
[Yusufali 6:152] And come not nigh to the orphan's property, except to improve it, until he attain the age of full strength; give measure and weight with (full) justice;

The word in Arabic here is further then mature or full of strength, but it means "at most strength", that it is reaching their prime age in strength.

Now whatever this age is it certainly is not a 6 or 9 year old. 

The hadiths however teach you can marry a child. 

The question is why do people assume you can marry a child when we have clear verses like this? This observation 1. Note: I am not making a conclusion just based on this observation. It's just one factor to consider.

There is nothing unclear about it being the age of marriage. However the Muslim scholars almost all believe you can marry a child!

This is observation 1. 
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#12
RE: Dark influence on the hearts and implanting locks regarding the Quran.
Okay, Mystic, for the sake of ease of us digesting your argument, you really don't need to put in the arabic translations of each passage.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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#13
RE: Dark influence on the hearts and implanting locks regarding the Quran.
(June 16, 2015 at 3:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The question is why do people assume you can marry a child when we have clear verses like this?

Wouldn't it make more sense to ask the people engaged in the practice rather than a community of people that find the idea abhorrent?
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#14
RE: Dark influence on the hearts and implanting locks regarding the Quran.
Yeah, I can't be arsed to read bible scriptures. I sure am not stooping to examine hadiths (sp?) or koranic verses.
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#15
RE: Dark influence on the hearts and implanting locks regarding the Quran.
(June 16, 2015 at 3:24 pm)Cato Wrote:
(June 16, 2015 at 3:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The question is why do people assume you can marry a child when we have clear verses like this?

Wouldn't it make more sense to ask the people engaged in the practice rather than a community of people that find the idea abhorrent?
It's a question we should all ask. This is one factor in all this. I've thought about this issue...we can't make a conclusion just based on this, but it's a factor to put in perspective regarding the hypothesis. Is there hidden enemies to the Quran that don't want people to follow it's teachings? Do people who study the Quran their whole lives not perceive these matters simply out of natural reasons? Or is there something more. This is just one observation. I will be dealing with other observations and then I will be explaining my rational with the observations all together of why I conclude it's supernatural influence on the hearts and not natural reasons alone.
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#16
RE: Dark influence on the hearts and implanting locks regarding the Quran.
...What?
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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#17
RE: Dark influence on the hearts and implanting locks regarding the Quran.
(June 16, 2015 at 3:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Now whatever this age is it certainly is not a 6 or 9 year old. 

The hadiths however teach you can marry a child. 

The question is why do people assume you can marry a child when we have clear verses like this? This observation 1. Note: I am not making a conclusion just based on this observation. It's just one factor to consider.

There is nothing unclear about it being the age of marriage. However the Muslim scholars almost all believe you can marry a child!

Mohamed married a 6 year old, and consummated the marriage when she was 9.

So, you are saying that Mohamed was unaware of the  very texts he supposedly received from the angel Gabriel?
How does that work?

The only things I care about in the Quran, are any passages that can be used as motivation to do evil. None of the rest of it offers anything that is worth much. 

[/quote]

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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#18
RE: Dark influence on the hearts and implanting locks regarding the Quran.
I don't know, extrapolating from the appearent trajectory he took from mere befuddlement towards brain dead intoxication, I think there is a non-zero chance that mystic knight here will eventually mystically find his way into some Allah sprouting organization like the Islamic state.
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#19
RE: Dark influence on the hearts and implanting locks regarding the Quran.
You guys realize that the money shot to all of this is demons, right? A massive, demonic, conspiracy.

A good friend would tell you that -we- aren't the people you need to talk to about this, Mystic. Eh buddy?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#20
RE: Dark influence on the hearts and implanting locks regarding the Quran.
(June 16, 2015 at 3:29 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(June 16, 2015 at 3:24 pm)Cato Wrote: Wouldn't it make more sense to ask the people engaged in the practice rather than a community of people that find the idea abhorrent?
It's a question we should all ask. This is one factor in all this. I've thought about this issue...we can't make a conclusion just based on this, but it's a factor to put in perspective regarding the hypothesis. Is there hidden enemies to the Quran that don't want people to follow it's teachings? Do people who study the Quran their whole lives not perceive these matters simply out of natural reasons? Or is there something more. This is just one observation. I will be dealing with other observations and then I will be explaining my rational with the observations all together of why I conclude it's supernatural influence on the hearts and not natural reasons alone.

I haven't seen you around much lately, now I think I know why. You really have gone quite far down that rabbit-hole, haven't you?
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