What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[Catholic_Lady]

So what you're really saying is monogamy has benefits

But to say it's immoral to have sex outside marriage... that would suggest that two people who have never been with anyone else could meet, be totally serious and committed, have immoral sex, then get married and have moral sex with the same partner! How could that work? What is making it immoral previously? "Inadvisable" is hardly the same as "wrong/harmful".

You don't have to answer, I'm just curious.

Monogamy with a promised commitment for life, has benefits, yes. Which in our society usually, but not always, means marriage. If it's ok, for practicality's sake, I will just say "marriage" verses having to say "monogamy with a promised commitment for life" all the time lol. But you know what I mean.

Well, you have to remember that I addressed 2 separate issues:

-First I addressed why I think sex outside of husband/wife is not morally good.

-Then I addressed why I believe saving sex for a loving marriage is the safer, better option, regardless of God and morals.

These are 2 seperate issues, and while I know you don't understand the first, were you able to understand the second? Or at least, see where I'm coming from even if you don't agree? I explained it at length in my post to Rhythm.

[The Grand Nudger]

-and when no one disputes that, and suggests that Adam and Steve would also benefit from this arrangement of marriage.......monogamy with a promised commitment for life.......what?

[Catholic_Lady]

Also the promise, though given with honest intent, may become void at some time. I've seen people living out their years together although they never promised each other anything and weren't the least bit religious. I've also seen church marriages break apart after a few years and I've seen people making each others lives a living hell, but staying together since they believed in that binding religious contract.

There's never any guarantee when two people get together. They may have made the right or the wrong choice. People do change and it's always up to the individuals if they can and want to deal with these changes in their partners.

...And that's what I said in my post 567. ;-)

[The Grand Nudger]

It's not what you say that keeps us asking you these questions...it's what you won't.  

[Catholic_Lady]

This is why I believe, from a purely objective level, why it seems safer to wait. It's a personal decision my husband and I made, and it's something I will definitely teach my future children. But I don't lose respect for anyone who chooses differently.

If Adam and Steve are married, then you see no reason (no, non-god based reason, of course) to call their relationship immoral, or inadvisable, right?

Probably not, so to answer you, right.

I wouldn't have the same understanding of sexuality if I did not have any sort of belief in God or a higher being of any sort.

[Iroscato]

Whoa, this thread is moving along at some speed. Nevertheless...

-Can you give me examples of bad things I've done and/or unhealthy view points I have due to my beliefs?

I'm not saying you've specifically done bad things, but I strongly doubt somebody as apparently nice as yourself would hold such views about sex out of wedlock or homosexual acts if you didn't have the instillment of religion. You are an extremely mild case relatively speaking, but some of the worst acts of barbarism and oppression in the history of the human race has had its origins in the enforcement of religious teachings.

*Ahem* Also, you're extremely good looking.

[Catholic_Lady]

Whoa, this thread is moving along at some speed. Nevertheless...

-Can you give me examples of bad things I've done and/or unhealthy view points I have due to my beliefs?

I'm not saying you've specifically done bad things, but I strongly doubt somebody as apparently nice as yourself would hold such views about sex out of wedlock or homosexual acts if you didn't have the instillment of religion. You are an extremely mild case relatively speaking, but some of the worst acts of barbarism and oppression in the history of the human race has had its origins in the enforcement of religious teachings.

*Ahem* Also, you're extremely good looking.

Wow, thanks for the kind words and compliment! Perhaps you are speaking too soon, but I will try to uphold you assessment of my character.

I'd also like to be clear (though I'm sure everyone already knows) that while I hold my own personal views about sexual morality, it does not mean I think the law should get involved in cases of consenting adults, nor do I think people who act contrary to my views are bad people.

[Godscreated]

Why has everyone ignored what CL has said about school teachers, does this not bother you, for me it's horrific that our public schools are covering up such evil.

GC

Bitch, please.

I asked a simple question and your answer is to rave, you must have an agenda with me I'm not aware of.

GC

[robvalue]

I can certainly see the benefits of monogamy, yes I'm not up on details or studies or anything, but I can appreciate that one single committed relationship will reduce certain risks. Sadly it doesn't always work out with the first person, much as you'd like it to. And I wouldn't want anyone sticking with the first person for the sake of it if they are unhappy.

For me the big thing is that your opinions wouldn't lead you to act. I said it earlier, but I think it's worth repeating. That's an important distinction. As far as I'm concerned, people can think whatever they like as long as it doesn't lead them to harmful actions. Of course there's the issue of passing on those opinions to others, but you're so quick to own them rather than state them as "truths" that I don't see a problem. What I can't stand is indoctrination of children where religious belief is taught as fact. But of course I note you don't have kids anyway

[abaris]

I'd also like to be clear (though I'm sure everyone already knows) that while I hold my own personal views about sexual morality, it does not mean I think the law should get involved in cases of consenting adults, nor do I think people who act contrary to my views are bad people.

Yes, but that's kind of the problem. You may be an exemption but conservatives all around the world, who also call themselves christians, think it's perfectly alright to put their noses where the don't belong. Especially when it comes to conservative parties, who often have christian in their label. They fight teeth and claws to prevent same sex unions or, when it comes to America, to sneak religious religious ideas into legislation.

I always keep saying, what happens in church should stay in church. My problem with religion starts when it tries to force itself into everybody's life.