Does human life have INHERENT value?

[Bob Kelso]

Do you, as atheists, believe that human life has inherent value? (this means human life has value, in and of itself, unconditionally)

Definition of inherent (as per webster):

a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute

If so, why do you believe this and how did you come to that conclusion?

(PS - No agenda here, just honestly curious about what you think and why you think it. If you do not want to hear my opinions, don't ask. I promise not to talk about them otherwise.)

No. We attach value to things according to our wants and needs, things don't just have value intrinsically.

[Catholic_Lady]

The Catholic Church does not condone killing unless it is in absolute self defense or justifiable war.

The past few popes have spoken vehemently against the death penalty.

And which was it, absolute self defense, or justifiable war, that made it okay for the Catholic Church to try it's very own hand in burning hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of witches and heretics when the Catholic Church actually had the power to call up holy wars and pronounce death sentences?

As to the last few popes, it was very noble of those holy fathers to abhor killing by others a coupLe of hundred years AFTER progress of humanity through the Age of Enlightenment, which the Catholic Church abhorred also,  had in most places deprived the Catholic Church of its traditional power to call up holy wars and pronounce death sentences.

It was never ok for those people to do that. They acted wrongly, and against Catholic doctrine.

[MJ the Skeptical]

Do you, as atheists, believe that human life has inherent value? (this means human life has value, in and of itself, unconditionally)

Definition of inherent (as per webster):

a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute

If so, why do you believe this and how did you come to that conclusion?

(PS - No agenda here, just honestly curious about what you think and why you think it. If you do not want to hear my opinions, don't ask. I promise not to talk about them otherwise.)

Life has value if you want it to, atheist or not, so your question is nonsensical. Also, bullshit you don't have an agenda, everyone does.

[Anomalocaris]

And which was it, absolute self defense, or justifiable war, that made it okay for the Catholic Church to try it's very own hand in burning hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of witches and heretics when the Catholic Church actually had the power to call up holy wars and pronounce death sentences?

As to the last few popes, it was very noble of those holy fathers to abhor killing by others a coupLe of hundred years AFTER progress of humanity through the Age of Enlightenment, which the Catholic Church abhorred also,  had in most places deprived the Catholic Church of its traditional power to call up holy wars and pronounce death sentences.

It was never ok for those people to do that. They acted wrongly, and against Catholic doctrine.

Uh, really?

 It WAS the very same Catholic Church under the numerous infallible predecessors of the current pope that actually did it.  

What the Catholic Church DID in BURNING people at the stake when it could, would seem to speak infinitely louder than the WORDS it SPEAKS now when it couldn't, about what doctrine it Really would actually FOLLOW should it ever regain the power to really do as it pleased, unencumbered by such human progress as has taken place since the 1500s inspite of the catholic church's most strenuous and disgraceful efforts to suppress them, would it not?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Do you, as atheists, believe that human life has inherent value? (this means human life has value, in and of itself, unconditionally)

Without humans, what values are there? Your question is tautological.

[Catholic_Lady]

It was never ok for those people to do that. They acted wrongly, and against Catholic doctrine.

Uh, really?

 It WAS the very same Catholic Church under the numerous infallible predecessors of the current pope that actually did it.  

What the Catholic Church DID in BURNING people at the stake when it could, would seem to speak infinitely louder than the WORDS it SPEAKS now when it couldn't, about what doctrine it Really would actually FOLLOW should it ever regain the power to really do as it pleased, unencumbered by such human progress as has taken place since the 1500s inspite of the catholic church's most strenuous and disgraceful efforts to suppress them, would it not?

I am neither denying nor excusing the actions of those people. They were Catholic people. They did horrible things. It is heinous.

What I'm saying is that it's not any sort of official Church Doctrine. Meaning it is not part of the Catholic faith to believe that burning a heretic is moral, even if several centuries ago these Catholics acted horribly.

[robvalue]

For something to be of value, you must necessarily be talking about some sort of intelligence granting that value. It's an abstract concept. Nothing has this "value" encoded into it, swirling around it, or can be objectively measured for "value".

So you must first say who is making this value judgement. If we're not taking any particular perspective, then no, life has no value. It's a particular arrangement of chemicals. The abstract concepts that might be formed about it aren't found within the object itself.

Valueable to me? Yes. All life is inherently valuable to me, in that I value every human and animal life, without having to know anything about them.

Valuable to some random person? I have no idea. Some people value life, some clearly don't.

[abaris]

Meaning it is not part of the Catholic faith to believe that burning a heretic is moral, even if several centuries ago these Catholics acted horribly.

Two very catholic persons are at the root of the witch trials. The Dominican Inquisitor Heinrich Kramer, who wrote the malleus maleficarum, the handbook for future generations of inquisitors. And a pope, Innocent VIII, who, inspired by Kramer, released the bull Summis Desiderantes, which laid the catholic foundations for persecuting witches. You can argue, they acted against Catholic doctrine, but that's a rather hard undertaking, given that an actual pope was involved

Now Kramer, by all accounts, was a raving madman. And to be fair, even local bishops didn't want him in their sphere of influence. He got thrown out of Tirol when he started to chase witches there. But his message stuck and it got it's doctrinal backing with the bull. It's true, that the church didn't do the burning, but that's no even scratching the surface of the reality. There's one of the most brazen pieces of hypocrisy involved. First, the church doesn't shed blood. That's the doctrine. But the inquisitors didn't have any problem handing people they believed to be witches, over to the secular authorities, who weren't that shy about bloodshed. Second, it's also true that the church didn't have the legal authority to hold trials and to condemn people, but in many cases they provided the so called evidence to do so.

[Cato]

I value my life because it is the only one I have, it's finite and in the grand scheme of things extremely short in duration. This evaluation would be impossible without being a member of a species that had evolved the ability to create language which in turn allowed for abstract thinking. Observing other social primates demonstrates that empathy, kin selection, rudimentary justice, and certain behavior norms based on reciprocity existed before our ability to discuss them abstractly. The preceding is the basis of moral reasoning which is required for any discussion regarding how we value and behave towards one another.

[Chas]

Uh, really?

 It WAS the very same Catholic Church under the numerous infallible predecessors of the current pope that actually did it.  

What the Catholic Church DID in BURNING people at the stake when it could, would seem to speak infinitely louder than the WORDS it SPEAKS now when it couldn't, about what doctrine it Really would actually FOLLOW should it ever regain the power to really do as it pleased, unencumbered by such human progress as has taken place since the 1500s inspite of the catholic church's most strenuous and disgraceful efforts to suppress them, would it not?

I am neither denying nor excusing the actions of those people. They were Catholic people. They did horrible things. It is heinous.

What I'm saying is that it's not any sort of official Church Doctrine. Meaning it is not part of the Catholic faith to believe that burning a heretic is moral, even if several centuries ago these Catholics acted horribly.

You have put blinders on.   It was the Church's policy from the Pope on down to murder 'witches'.