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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
June 28, 2015 at 10:41 am
(June 27, 2015 at 9:44 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (June 27, 2015 at 9:34 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: Or you could just simply re-state your "points" is a more carefully worded post to which I might respond.
It's up to you.
Yeah; I'm not your bitch, Randy. It's up to you to make the effort to at least try to understand what is being presented. Which of course you do.
Agreed. I do try to understand what folks are saying, but in that particular post which you wrote and then referred to a second time, I didn't really see anything there that warranted further effort.
If I missed it, please elaborate.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
June 28, 2015 at 10:44 am
(June 28, 2015 at 10:39 am)Esquilax Wrote: To be fair, I think Randy has said previously that he believes the story is allegorical?
Then he's in trouble with his church. Official church doctrine gives some latitude regrading the interpretation of much of the story; however, a Catholic must accept as truth the existence of Adam and Eve as first parents and some event resulting in the fall. The reason for this of course is that treating this allegorically results in dismantling the need for Christ and the whole scheme comes apart.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
June 28, 2015 at 10:45 am
(June 28, 2015 at 10:39 am)Randy Carson Wrote: Have you ever read a book of Catholic theology? If so, which one?
Yeah, I'm not willing to do that, mainly because there's no guarantee that what I read will match what any given catholic believes, and if I'm going to be committing any time at all to discussing things that I don't believe, I'd rather that time be spent discussing the actual beliefs of the people I'm talking to, rather than something that only might be. We have another catholic here of- what I suspect is- a different sect to yours, we've got catholics disavowing the current pope based on some things he said.... you guys aren't a monolithic bloc any more than all atheists are.
What do you believe on this issue?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
June 28, 2015 at 10:46 am
Will there by any effort to refute the material I posted in posts 1, 65 & 148?
Tonechase disputed the quotes from Josephus and Tacitus, but that's about it.
Is the Minimal Facts Approach really that effective?
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
June 28, 2015 at 10:47 am
(June 27, 2015 at 9:13 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: The story of the fall is an allegory which explains that our first parents preferred their own will over submitting their wills to God.
In other words, they did not care to be slaves as you apparently are.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
June 28, 2015 at 10:59 am
The only conspiracy here is the one you believe in.
That should have been obvious when the NT writers attributing sayings to a Jesus that probably never existed gave their assertion in Matthew 24. It's the biggest fail of Christianity and any tenuous rationalization you float will not cover it.
Go ahead and cherry pick your verses out of context just like you cherry pick your theology based on your pre supposed nonsensical information.
**Crickets** -- God
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
June 28, 2015 at 10:59 am
(This post was last modified: June 28, 2015 at 11:00 am by Randy Carson.)
(June 28, 2015 at 10:45 am)Esquilax Wrote: (June 28, 2015 at 10:39 am)Randy Carson Wrote: Have you ever read a book of Catholic theology? If so, which one?
Yeah, I'm not willing to do that, mainly because there's no guarantee that what I read will match what any given catholic believes, and if I'm going to be committing any time at all to discussing things that I don't believe, I'd rather that time be spent discussing the actual beliefs of the people I'm talking to, rather than something that only might be.
But it is ENTIRELY possible to read what the Catholic Church teaches - there is the Catechism of the Catholic Church, for example, as well as many authors who are completely faithful to that teaching.
Discussing what any one Catholic believes may or may not provide you with a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine depending on who you talk to. This would be not unlike talking to a group of underclassmen about advanced physics when you have the textbook and the author of that textbook available to you.
Quote:We have another catholic here of- what I suspect is- a different sect to yours, we've got catholics disavowing the current pope based on some things he said.... you guys aren't a monolithic bloc any more than all atheists are.
But the Church is monolithic in the sense that it is possible to read what the official teaching of the Church is...regardless of how any one individual interprets it. So, if you want to know what the Catholic Church actually teaches, that information is available.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
June 28, 2015 at 11:02 am
(June 28, 2015 at 10:59 am)tonechaser77 Wrote: The only conspiracy here is the one you believe in.
That should have been obvious when the NT writers attributing sayings to a Jesus that probably never existed gave their assertion in Matthew 24. It's the biggest fail of Christianity and any tenuous rationalization you float will not cover it.
Go ahead and cherry pick your verses out of context just like you cherry pick your theology based on your pre supposed nonsensical information.
I do hope for the sake of the church you attend that you will have the decency to resign your position as quickly as possible.
There's no sense living a lie.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
June 28, 2015 at 11:04 am
(June 28, 2015 at 11:02 am)Randy Carson Wrote: There's no sense living a lie.
And yet you do.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
June 28, 2015 at 11:04 am
I suppose zero could be construed as minimal.
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