"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us..." should we be grateful?

[Whateverist]

Meh, if we'd stood up to religion rather than show them deference out of fear -or- "respect" for their fragile sensibilities (or just to avoid the inconvenience) then I might have less ammo to sling at the Catholic Church, as only one example, don't you think?   Only presenting the other side of that coin, the side that we may be uncomfortable facing.  Is providing cover for continuing atrocity all that justified on the basis of what makes a given person tear up?

Obvs, I don't think so.

But this raises the question why has god belief existed far, far longer than written history?  What exactly do the people for whom it is a positive experience get from it?  These are important questions to answer, not just bat away, assuming you want to understand people and the world we live in.

[Catholic_Lady]

Ask Whateverist and Rhythm lol.

I'm just answering their questions.

Well it was really just inspired by the quote in your sig line and musing about the conflicting feelings it raises in me.  You know - great guy to be more inclusive but what do I really care about who is on the Pope's admit list if I'm not going to his club?

The connection to you my friend is just that you had it in your sig line and you obviously do care about the pope's club.  What I like more about you is that you care who is on his admit list.  Believing what you do it would be kind of unfriend-like if you didn't care.

I guess I should have just answered Pizza with just "ask Rhythm".

Rhythm was the one asking me about how I feel in regards to being made fun of for my beliefs, not you Whateverist.

I understand your conflict. Just see it as how he views Atheists. He doesn't view yall as bad people just for not believing in God. I mean, not that you'd care what the pope thinks anyway lol. But just saying.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm not sure -why- it raises that question, but, in any case, libraries have been written on the subject.  I don't think that I'm going to be able to have that conversation with someone, though, who will request deference the moment I begin to discuss an explanation that offends them.

Taboo is not conducive to frank discussion or knowledge, I'm sure we can agree to that. One possible explanation (though by no means the only or the all-encompassing) of the persistence and utility of religion is as a means by which conformity and deference to authority is established....which is gigglesome, considering the way the thread has progressed thusfar.


@ Cath
I don't see you as a bad person just -for- believing in god. The pope and I have something in common, lol, in case you wondered - neither of us seems to make those determinations on such a shaky basis.

[Minimalist]

Neither do I.... at worst, it is a minor personality flaw.

May the FSM spinkle cheese on you.

[Whateverist]

I guess the biggest stumbling block in giving you what you're asking, Cath-y, is that this is precisely where most of us go to vent about religion.  Any place else and I'm not in to it.  If people enjoyed mocking religion before you arrived, and who among us has not laughed at Bill Maher doing just that, you can't expect them to stop now that you're here, right?  

It is one thing to do something because you want to hurt someone versus wanting to do a thing and realizing that might happen.  In RL I don't make too many sacrifices for other people's feelings.  If we disagree or what they want and I want is incompatible, I don't think I owe it to anyone to sacrifice what I want.

I'm not talking about HERE, whateverist. And I'm not even talking about me specifically. I never said anything about people making fun of religion here.

I'm talking about in real life, to the face of a real life friend. And this conversation all started when Rhythm asked me about a religious friend of his. 

This is the problem with these online discussions. People don't read the conversations thoroughly and then start assuming I'm saying things I'm not actually saying lol. It's very frustrating.

Okay that is different.  But I thought your disappointment about Rob kudos'ing Vic or Kusa's post was actually about what happens here.


You know the original reason for the thread is one thing.  But the reason I asked you if it offended you probably was motivated more by trying to understand how well you are separating what people think about religion from what they think about you.  I doubt if any of us has a religious relative we wouldn't trade for you in a heartbeat.  You are like the ideal religious person to interact with.

But .. sometimes you come off a little bit like Ms Manners.  Does anyone else tell you that?  Thinking and talking about what one does or should do if one cares about a person makes sense when people subscribe to the same objective moral foundation.  But that is kind of in question here.  While I like you a lot I have to say, I don't often think or talk about how people should behave.  

Oh sure, I'm quick to call out the assholes when I'm driving but then there is a (supposedly) shared foundation for expectations provided by the vehicle code.  But by and large I just don't spend much time thinking about how I and others should act.  I like to be spontaneous morally.  

Exploring the differences for me is fun but I don't want to go beyond what is fun for you.  Do we need a safe word?

[Catholic_Lady]

@ Cath
I don't see you as a bad person just -for- believing in god.  The pope and I have something in common, lol, in case you wondered - neither of us seems to make those determinations on such a shaky basis.

[Catholic_Lady]

I'm not talking about HERE, whateverist. And I'm not even talking about me specifically. I never said anything about people making fun of religion here.

I'm talking about in real life, to the face of a real life friend. And this conversation all started when Rhythm asked me about a religious friend of his. 

This is the problem with these online discussions. People don't read the conversations thoroughly and then start assuming I'm saying things I'm not actually saying lol. It's very frustrating.

Okay that is different.  But I thought your disappointment about Rob kudos'ing Vic or Kusa's post was actually about what happens here.

Let me clarify.

When I say "what happens here" I'm talking about all the anti religious posts, etc, that you guys put up. I understand this is an atheist site and wouldn't expect the atheists here not to make posts like that about religion. So that's what I meant by that.

The thing with Rob (and I love Rob, btw, I don't mean to drag him into this), was that he kudosed a post that specifically made fun of me. I wasn't angry at him for it, I was just disappointed/surprised because him and I are buddies on here. So I was like "why is my buddy Rob giving a high five to something that is directly making fun of me personally?"

It got blown waaayyyy out of proportion and came across as being something that it never was. And that was entirely my fault for expressing my disappointment on the thread rather than via PM. For which I have apologized to Rob.

You can still make fun of people personally here, and I still think that's not cool. But when I said I wasn't talking about what happens here, I was referring to the general anti religious posts.

[Longhorn]

But .. sometimes you come off a little bit like Ms Manners.  Does anyone else tell you that?  Thinking and talking about what one does or should do if one cares about a person makes sense when people subscribe to the same objective moral foundation.  But that is kind of in question here.  While I like you a lot I have to say, I don't often think or talk about how people should behave.  

I would like to add to that that I don't appreciate being told how to talk to people. no, adding 'just MHO' does not help.

[Whateverist]

Okey dokey. How about "pineapple"?

[Longhorn]

Well, let's say your beliefs hurt my feelings. Whatever the fuck now? Stop having beliefs, you heartless monster? Thicker skin is advised.

Ideas are not sacred, and they don't deserve to be, otherwise we're heading straight towards totalitarianism. Or, you know, religion. If you can't stand having your beliefs scrutinized, keep them to yourself.

If my beliefs hurt your feelings, then I won't talk about them in front of you.

And like I said in another post, if you truly think one of your friend's beliefs is harmful, I would advice you to sit down with them, and in a respectful conversation, tell them your concerns... and do so just one time. Bugging someone about it over and over again is not your place. And making fun of them to your friend's face, is just rude.

It really is that simple.

Oh, gee, I was dying to know what my place is. Thanks.

What exactly constitutes 'making fun' to you?