Why I Am Pro-Life

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Sorry to bust in on this thread, but do you know if Paths is gone for good?

Boru

by the by, I've been having a bit of a looky-loo round this place. Looks good.

[orogenicman]

Sorry to bust in on this thread, but do you know if Paths is gone for good?

Boru

by the by, I've been having a bit of a looky-loo round this place. Looks good.

Thank the stars, I'm glad you contacted me. Can you send me a private message here with your e-mail? I can tell you what I know, and at any rate, would like to stay in touch in case the worst happens. By the way, I tried to send you a private message and you have it turned off.

[fr0d0]

pineapple

zygote not embryo. The value WE humans place on human life is an evolutionary, special (as on species), instinctual one. Our ethical considerations are not limited to sentient humans in equal measure to sentience in non human life forms. We have an inbuilt ethical duty to uphold the interest of a fellow human, for natural reasons. Our interest in special continuation.

There is no directive/ prescriptive external responsibility for this. We make our own. Every situation would require our most sensitive judgement.

To me the above is obvious and shouldn't need stating. And I really hope once more that I've answered this illusive question of yours.

Likewise, I need you to explain how you can justify detachment from your humanity. How can you consider what you know it's a potential human life worthless? How do you detach all knowledge of what you know this will become and be so cold and heartless?

[Gilgamesh]

Honestly I think what irked me the most was this had nothing to do with the abortion debate

That's the point. I would call myself pro-life too if ignorant rednecks wouldn't consider me one of their own for doing so.

[Chas]

I'm amazed that there are any non-religious people who are anti-choice, at least any who stay that way for long.

I was for a short time. Then I learned some basic things about fetal development and realized there's no there, there. It's only with religious indoctrination and a belief that there's a mystical soul that occupies that collection of cells that you can believe that's a person with rights to life. Without the supernatural crap, that center can't hold.

My opinion is completely based upon science. A human being exists from conception, and moral choices apply.

Sorry, science doesn't necessarily agree with you.

There are various views on this, all scientific.

[fr0d0]

There are various views on this, all scientific.

Great. Please show us them.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

pineapple

zygote not embryo. The value WE humans place on human life is an evolutionary, special (as on species), instinctual one. Our ethical considerations are not limited to sentient humans in equal measure to sentience in non human life forms. We have an inbuilt ethical duty to uphold the interest of a fellow human, for natural reasons. Our interest in special continuation.

There is no directive/ prescriptive external responsibility for this. We make our own. Every situation would require our most sensitive judgement.

To me the above is obvious and shouldn't need stating. And I really hope once more that I've answered this illusive question of yours.

Likewise, I need you to explain how you can justify detachment from your humanity. How can you consider what you know it's a potential human life worthless? How do you detach all knowledge of what you know this will become and be so cold and heartless?

Embryo, zygote, it's the difference of a few cells. You said since conception, no? That would be a zygote. Embryo goes up to 8 weeks. Anyway, fine i should've called it a zygote.

It's a sensitive issue for the mother, not for anyone else. Because she's about to go through surgery and making the biggest decision of her life on whether she wants a baby or she does not. Why it concerns others is what I don't understand. Especially what you said about frozen embryos.

I'm not at all detached from my humanity. You are telling me that it's justified at this point in time to bring life into this world to a mother who does not want it, or isn't prepared to take care of it. That this would be a good thing to do, and to do this is to be in touch with your humanity? To sacrifice for something that doesn't even know what "want" means, let alone to want to be born. The only reason to justify this is to say that it's "meant to be" born. And that is not something I subscribe to.

I'm not detached from my humanity enough to think that a mother who never prepared for this, should go through with this, spend the next 20 years of her time and money on this baby (if she's lucky) and lose out on the one chance she has to fulfill her goals in life, whatever they may be. She may even die in childbirth, and many women have in places with less advance medical technology. You can argue that she may like it, but that's the thing, she very well may not. You see, I believe this is the only life we have, and I cannot bring myself to think that anyone should sacrifice so much for something like an embryo.

You brought up earlier that if my mother aborted me, I wouldn't be here now. And that's exactly it. I wouldn't be. I wouldn't have suffered, she wouldn't have suffered, nothing would've happened. That's all there is to it. there's potential, then there's actually real and happening right now. Potential doesn't triumph real, it doesn't triumph much if it requires so much sacrifice.

And frozen embryos. What's the issue here, truly? These embryos can go through IVF to give a couple a baby. Or they can be used for stem cells research and save lives. How do I disregard people's happiness and wellbeing in favour of embryos? I don't understand, it's very clear cut what is more important.

Why do I not value potential human lives? because they're potential. If the world population was dying out I'd value them very much. But we're talking about sacrificing ourselves for these potentials that will never be babies. Those frozen ones, they certainly will never all get to be a baby. Why are you so sure that they'd dislike that?

[Slave]

An unfertilized human egg contains half the DNA required to create a human, as does a sperm. A fertilized egg is the very beginning of human life. It *is* human, as far as I am aware. I too used to be pro-choice (although I still am, my level of agree-ability changes per case), until I considered the ethical implications of abortion. If a woman aborts a fetus, is it equal to murder? No, I would not say it is equal to murder, as murder is a pre-meditated taking of sentient life. But willful abortion (as in, miscarriages aside) is without a doubt, in my eyes, the act of taking a human life, as I define human life begins at conception. That leaves the only difference between murder as we define it and abortion being legality. And how are laws made? By us. Laws change and adapt, reflecting the values of whatever society forms them. Because something is lawful, does not de facto make it right. If you're going to be in support of abortion purely because it is legal, therefore it is OK, I wonder what you would have thought of slavery. Logical consistency. It's a bitch, ain't it.

The act of abortion raises ethical questions. But the point remains. Human life begins at conception. Arguing otherwise is unscientific. I also do not view this as a question of sentience. We still treat humans in a vegetative state with some measure of respect. Human life has value, even if there is no active brain present that transforms a human husk into a human being. Where is the line drawn? Where does human life become valuable? When it starts to feel pain? When it becomes aware of its surroundings? It's a huge grey area and to dismiss rational inquiry into the ethics of abortion offhand as so many have done in this thread is in my opinion quite alarming.

I have read through this thread and have to say I agree with fr0d0, and he seems to be one of the few here who are logically consistent.

Also, I think it is hilarious that one or two posters here were accused of misogyny. As a woman myself, who has a 10-month-old baby boy, I never saw that poster's so called misogyny and opposition to women's rights shine through their statements. I wonder why that is? Am I not feminist enough because I do not fully support abortion and claim it as just an issue of women's rights and not that of autonomy? Pretty ridiculous, if I'm being honest.

Also, to the poster who thinks it is perfectly okay for a woman to 'abort' her fetus 1 hour prior to birth, where the fuck is your humanity?

[Minimalist]

With the woman. I don't give a flying fuck about fetuses...and it sure as hell is none of my business if someone else wants a kid or not.

[catfish]

Why do I not value potential human lives? because they're potential. If the world population was dying out I'd value them very much. But we're talking about sacrificing ourselves for these potentials that will never be babies. Those frozen ones, they certainly will never all get to be a baby. Why are you so sure that they'd dislike that?

It's not "potential" human life, it IS human life.