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RE: Scientific knowledge versus spiritual knowledge
January 9, 2016 at 3:41 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2016 at 3:44 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You just said that it could decide what goodness was. In fact it is tautologicaly true that it did, given your statement. What's all this bullshit, now, about how it can't?
That's just for starters, theres a lot more to unpack already. Like...how "it follows".......it follows by what, what inference are you making? If I didn't create something..and it was real...does that then mean that it's eternal? No, because that thing might be a light bulb, made yesterday.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Scientific knowledge versus spiritual knowledge
January 9, 2016 at 4:15 pm
(January 9, 2016 at 3:41 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You just said that it could decide what goodness was.
I said if it could decide what goodness was, then...(a)
But I'm saying if it can't then...(b)
Not A, therefore B.
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RE: Scientific knowledge versus spiritual knowledge
January 9, 2016 at 4:32 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2016 at 4:35 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
False dichotomy, built out of a non-sequitur... for reasons already elaborated upon in my very last post. Understand?
Ignore that, though....how have you determined "Not A"? "A" is the one thing I've seen you say that actually follows, and you decided against it, lol.
If a god could create morality it could make torture moral. Agreed..........and.....?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Scientific knowledge versus spiritual knowledge
January 9, 2016 at 4:37 pm
It's impossible for it to be morally good to torture a creature for no crime on it's own intensely forever and ever in any possible world, therefore...(and you know the rest)
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RE: Scientific knowledge versus spiritual knowledge
January 9, 2016 at 4:41 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2016 at 4:41 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
No, it's not...if a god can create morality, as you so recently expressed.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Scientific knowledge versus spiritual knowledge
January 9, 2016 at 4:44 pm
Yeah obviously it's not true if God can create morality. That's beside the point. I never said it's possible for God to create morality in any possible world. The hypothetical was saying, if it can in any possible world, then (a). However if can't then (b). Not A (ie. it's impossible), therefore (b).
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RE: Scientific knowledge versus spiritual knowledge
January 9, 2016 at 4:47 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2016 at 4:53 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
"Obviously it's not true" does not qualify as a rational argument, Mystic. You described a scenario in which it -is- tautologically true. It's not "beside the point"...you made it -part- of your point..now show a little responsibility.
It still doesn't matter...because your "B" doesn't follow anyway...and is a false dichotomy, additionally.
Tell me how you could have fucked it up more completely if you'd been trying to fuck it up....I don't think that you could have.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Scientific knowledge versus spiritual knowledge
January 9, 2016 at 4:52 pm
c->a
Not c -> b
Not a
Therefore Not c
Therefore b.
b would follow from not a.
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RE: Scientific knowledge versus spiritual knowledge
January 9, 2016 at 4:55 pm
Stop, you're stuttering. Address my comments or give up the pretense that you are addressing my comments.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Scientific knowledge versus spiritual knowledge
January 9, 2016 at 5:01 pm
(January 9, 2016 at 4:55 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Stop, you're stuttering. Address my comments or give up the pretense that you are addressing my comments. You said it didn't follow. I was showing how it did.
The statement that it can't be morally/good in any possible world to torture a being for no crime intensely forever and ever...doesn't follow from the statement, It's stated by itself but if that is the contention, we can get into a dialogue about that. If a hypothetical eternal being can decide that to be it's morality, why can't we? So do you believe we can make it so that it's good for us to torture kids for no crime, put acid on them? No. Can you even say 100% we can't decide this. I believe so.
But it you accept that premise, and the "tautology", then it follows it's impossible for a Creator to create morality while it didn't always exist.
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