Trump won the white working-man vote..

[The Grand Nudger]

What did forcing bigots to uncomfortably confront their bigotry, genteel or otherwise, accomplish?  Oh, only the civil rights movement and the total reformation of the democratic party.

Shhh, shhh, quiet everybody, we can't upset the bigots, they might -do- something. Fuck, they might even vote for the other guy! Yeah, no shit, they might flee your party like they did then, and run to the other guys. Problem?

[AceBoogie]

Trumps whole campaign was targeted towards winning the white working class male. This guy knew what he was doing and it worked.

[Mister Agenda]

So, true; if half the Greens had decided not to throw their votes away, Bill and Hillary would be selecting their furniture for the White House right about now.

The same could be said of 5% more Democrats turning up to the ballot and voting Clinton. But let's not focus on them, eh?

[Mister Agenda]

You're ignoring the fact their interpretation of his campaign might not be the racist one you portray.

If someone voted for Trump it's quite possible they didn't believe it was a 'racist campaign', despite whether it was or wasn't. To tarnish every voter a racist and ignore this is just irresponsible. It makes you no better than the wilfully ignorant racists you're trying to call Trump supporters.

I'll agree with you in principle that they aren't ALL racist.  Is it possible to be "somewhat" or "a little" racist vs full blown white supremacist?  I'd throw my parents in the "little bit" category if that's even possible.  They would never say anything overt in public or call a black person the N word, but behind closed doors they let their guard down a little.

My biggest issue with Republicans right now is their apparent love fest for the Donald.  I can totally understand if they held their noses and cast a vote for Trump because they hated Hillary so much.  If most of them would come out with the opinion of, "We got you elected to stop Hillary, now knock off the bullshit and do your job".  But no..  They trotted out 18 candidates for president and let the dullest lightbulbs in the drawer pick their candidate, and now he's the greatest thing ever.

This forum would have one tenth the post had they actually elected a decent human like Jeb Bush.  There would be no protest.  Republicans are so stupid.

Trump got the authoritarian vote. He's a strong man who offers simple solutions to complex problems and promises what the people he wants to vote for him need to hear, whether it's bringing obsolete jobs back or that it's okay to be afraid of Muslim immigrants. About 20% of Americans skew authoritarian on polls, and they're not just Republicans. When we find out the percentage of Democrats who actually voted for Trump, they'll likely mostly be drawn from the authoritarian end of the Democrat pool.

The Senate must be turned blue in 2018. Trump and/or Pence must not get another term. Democrats must not blow this.

[Mister Agenda]

I agree, which is why I voted 3rd party, as you all know.

But that doesn't mean people who see it differently are not bothered by the worst things about the candidate they very begrudgingly voted for.

I don't see why holding their priorities up in their face is such a problem.

Because it doesn't increase the odds that they will vote for your candidate next time, I'd imagine. No one is talking about the people who would never vote for a Democrat. We're talking about the ones who didn't vote for the Democrat this time.

[Mister Agenda]

They liked the racism more than they liked hillary.  That's pretty fuckin racist.  There's no wiggling out of it.  

There may have been, if Trump was a dog whistle blower, or a clever speaker who could legitimately mask the racist ideology and vision of america being espoused.  He was neither.  He let it all hang out, and no one's  "portraying" him as what he is or his campaign for what it was...just observing.  

The amount of ball twisting denial that goes into this is like a fine wine, to me.  I've been watching people hit that uncomfortable "what's racist about that?" moment for my entire life.  It goes one of two ways, from there.  Either a person suddenly realizes that they've been a racist dick -perhaps, even, being generous, an unintentionally racist dick-, or they rationalize away their discomfort and continue to be a dick.  A racist....dick.

It's possible to reach people who are racist. But it's nearly impossible to do by rubbing their nose in it. If you think about it, that pretty much doesn't work in any area of life, does it? There's this weird thing where people who feel attacked put up their defenses and can't objectively listen to what you're saying.

But the rhetoric isn't about winning hearts or changing anyone's mind, it's about that warm self-righteous feeling that comes from condemning those who are less than you.

Like right now, I'm being condescending and sarcastic, and even though I have a point; I've made it harder for you to focus on that instead of the way what I'm saying makes you feel.

[The Grand Nudger]

Like I said, you do the reaching.  I'm not interested in pulling them into the dem party, I'm not even a damned dem, lol....? Let them put up their defenses. It;s easier to knock them down when you know what they are...and when they;ve all been addressed, there will be nothing left to hide behind.

Trust me, I don't get any warm feelings when I find myself in the presence of a bigot, nor do I get any warm feelings from realizing that you actual;ly have to point out to a bigot, what's bigoted about what they do. Quite the opposite. It;s one of the few things that harshes my mellow regarding our entire species, warts and all.

It's not difficult for me to focus on your point...I just don't agree with it and there isn;t much more to be said about it between us, lol.

[Mister Agenda]

To cater to the desire of white working man to continue to be paid well without being spanked hard and forced becoming something other, and more accurately and precisely, far better educated and far better, than the "white working man", is to mortgage the future of both this country, and of the selfsame "white working man".

The victory of trump is therefore the victory in the battle to position the US even less well in the world in 25 or 50 years.

So doing the whistle-stop circuit outside of cities is catering to white working men now? Because that would have swung this election the other way. Bill knew it, but the campaign didn't listen to him. Maybe because they were worried about catering to white working men.

[Mister Agenda]

There's some science on how to reach bigots and get them to oppose legislation that is discriminatory. It's pretty much the opposite of your suggestion. But at least yours has the advantage of being an impossible fantasy and lets you vent your spleen while accomplishing nothing.

Right, shame on me.  

I'm tired of their shit.  They keep pretending not to see their shit, so I'll help them notice their shit.  It's bigot chicken, a game with which I'm intimately familiar. I'm not interested in pandering to them or tricking them into opposing legislation that aligns with their bigoted ideals, lol.  You do it your way, I'll do it my way, we'll have them by the head and the tail.

Your way doesn't help anyone but yourself. I presume it gives you a good feeling, but it otherwise accomplishes jack and shit. All you're doing is venting and trying to do it from a high horse.

[The Grand Nudger]

Doesn't do me much good, MA.  What good -could- it do me, lol?  All my way has ever done is make me an outsider in my ingroup of rurals.  I'm okay with that. What high horse? I can give you an itemized list of my personal failings if you like...but that won;t change the fact that a bigot is a bigot, and that I'm more than capable of making that call from down here in the gutter.