White supremacists and counter protesters clash in Charlottesville

[Brian37]

So should it also be for a fucking vote to have a statue of Jesus, or the ten commandments up?  I mean as long as it's by a vote, right?

No because it violates the constitution, we dont have laws saying you can only have statues of union soldiers.

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I think towns people should be able to vote on things in their town that are within the law, didnt realize that would ruffle so many feathers.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT...... Um the South supported slavery not the North, now you tell me how that is not a violation of the civil rights of blacks? Why the fuck are you so damned bent on supporting that?

I COULD GIVE A SHIT LESS if you are going to argue legality. Still a huge difference between legal and moral. PERIOD!

You think just because it wasn't a war with mass gassing of blacks makes it less cruel, because it wasn't Jews? GROW THE FUCK UP AND STOP DEFENDING IT.

By your logic anyone who wants a Nazi flag on public property if enough people want it they should have one. NO AND FUCK YOU.

"Blacks were not gassed in ovens, so slavery was ok." Now if that is not what you defend then just admit the statues should not be there. 

There is absolutely no lagit reason for any promotion of slavery on public property outside a museum of what not to do with your fellow human beings. Otherwise I will assume you do support slavery, so if you don't just fucking drop your argument. I could give a shit less if you want to argue legality.

[Kosh]

So we should remove all traces of anybody who had slaves or was on the side of slavery from government property?  Going to have remove half of Washington D.C.

Nah, that's not it at all.  In its simplest sense of the word, he was a traitor.   You don't see any statues of Jefferson Davis in DC?

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Didn't robert e lee have the same views about blacks and slavery as Lincoln?

Even if that is true..  Does that matter?  It almost makes it worse that he couldn't be bothered to stand up for what he thought was right regarding slavery.

[Mr.wizard]

No because it violates the constitution, we dont have laws saying you can only have statues of union soldiers.

---

I think towns people should be able to vote on things in their town that are within the law, didnt realize that would ruffle so many feathers.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT...... Um the South supported slavery not the North, now you tell me how that is not a violation of the civil rights of blacks? Why the fuck are you so damned bent on supporting that?

I COULD GIVE A SHIT LESS if you are going to argue legality. Still a huge difference between legal and moral. PERIOD!

You think just because it wasn't a war with mass gassing of blacks makes it less cruel, because it wasn't Jews? GROW THE FUCK UP AND STOP DEFENDING IT.

By your logic anyone who wants a Nazi flag on public property if enough people want it they should have one. NO AND FUCK YOU.

"Blacks were not gassed in ovens, so slavery was ok." Now if that is not what you defend then just admit the statues should not be there. 

There is absolutely no lagit reason for any promotion of slavery on public property outside a museum of what not to do with your fellow human beings. Otherwise I will assume you do support slavery, so if you don't just fucking drop your argument. I could give a shit less if you want to argue legality.

Brian fuck you, I have asked now for the 3rd time to stop misrepresenting my position you angry dishonest little prick. I know the south supported slavery, I was pointing out that our laws do not grant the right to put up only statues of union soldiers. Towns are allowed to display monuments of statues that relate to the history of the town the people can vote whether or not they want these statues and that is a process that I support. I do not support your position that is a part of history that is embarrassing or immoral it shouldn't be displayed or worse should be forced by law not to be displayed.

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So we should remove all traces of anybody who had slaves or was on the side of slavery from government property?  Going to have remove half of Washington D.C.

Nah, that's not it at all.  In its simplest sense of the word, he was a traitor.   You don't see any statues of Jefferson Davis in DC?

---

Didn't robert e lee have the same views about blacks and slavery as Lincoln?

Even if that is true..  Does that matter?  It almost makes it worse that he couldn't be bothered to stand up for what he thought was right regarding slavery.

I was referring to things like the Jefferson memorial and displays of the constitution which was signed by men who owned slaves and included no laws to protect against slavery.

[Catholic_Lady]

Didn't robert e lee have the same views about blacks and slavery as Lincoln?

Even if that is true..  Does that matter?  It almost makes it worse that he couldn't be bothered to stand up for what he thought was right regarding slavery.

And you think Lincoln declared war on the south to stand up against slavery? You think rescuing the slaves for their own sake was any sort of motivation for him?

I just dont see how it makes sense to take down the statue of a man who opposed slavery (yet didn't fight against it) when we have statues of men who supported it and even owned them.

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Quote from President Lincoln:

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”

I mean, we may as well take down his statues too if we're gonna be taking down Lee.

[Divinity]

Yeah, Cause Lincoln is specifically remembered for fighting for Slavery, and is totally the same as Lee.

OH WAIT! No he's fucking not! Robert E. Lee was a fucking traitor who fought to preserve slavery. Lincoln was our 16th president and preserved the fucking union.

[Crossless2.0]

Even if that is true..  Does that matter?  It almost makes it worse that he couldn't be bothered to stand up for what he thought was right regarding slavery.

And you think Lincoln declared war on the south to stand up against slavery? You think rescuing the slaves for their own sake was any sort of motivation for him?

I just dont see how it makes sense to take down the statue of a man who opposed slavery (yet didn't fight against it) when we have statues of men who supported it and even owned them.

---

Quote from President Lincoln:

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”

I mean, we may as well take down his statues too if we're gonna be taking down Lee.

I must have been out sick the day we covered Lincoln's treason in history class.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Actually, Brian, Trump's victory happened precisely because people could vote in secrecy supporting a racist.

Not that I want to do away with the secret ballot -- I don't -- but when racism is hidden, it is much more dangerous.

[Rev. Rye]

Jefferson's views on slavery were kind of complicated, and mired in contradictions. He originally wrote a passage condemning slavery into the Declaration of Independence, but between Southerners refusing to support such a passage, and others, presumably including quite a few Northerners, pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of someone who not only owned slaves, but was one of the biggest planters in his state, condemning slavery, it was removed.

It seems he considered slavery a necessary evil, actually making slave importation illegal during his presidency, but, by his death, he still had 133 of them. It seems his debts partly influenced his failure to actually free his slaves, and I suppose his assumption that they were inherently of inferior intelligence might not have helped matters. And I'm not sure how his long-term affair with Sally Hemmings would fit into the whole debate (whether it points to a more nuanced view of things or if he simply used her as a handy orifice like so many slave owners did that the average black American has the equivalent of 1/8 European ancestry in their DNA).

Also, to anyone who claims the North started the Civil War, you may want to do a bit more research on the battle of Fort Sumter. It turns out that, while the North did not approve of the secession of the South at all, they took great pains to ensure they did not actually fire the first shot. In fact, after Lt. Henry S. Farley fired the first shots, it took 2 1/2 hours for the Union to return fire, even if it was largely because they needed something to actually fire.

[Minimalist]

Lost in the commotion over what the WLB didn't say or what he finally did say under pressure

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/man-atte...-memorial/

Feds bust Oklahoma man for attempt to detonate car bomb blocks from 1995 Oklahoma City bombing

Jerry Drake Varnell, of Sayre, Oklahoma was arrested early Saturday morning when he was found to be attempting to detonate what he believed was a van filled with explosives parked in an alley next to the BancFirst building, according to KOCO News.

The arrest is the culmination of an ongoing domestic terrorism investigation that involves undercover officers. Varnell had been monitored closely for months as the plot unfolded. The device was never one that would explode or kill anyone and the public was safe at all times.

Ooh.  They said domestic terrorism about a white guy.  The WLB is not going to like that.

[downbeatplumb]

Trump finally calls out the Nazis.

Donald Trump has finally condemned the KKK, neo-Nazis and white supremacists, calling them “criminals and thugs” and saying: “Racism is evil.”
Trump caused outrage when, after one person was killed and 19 injured when a car drove into protestors opposing a Far Right rally in Virginia, he condemned violence on “both sides”.
At a hastily convened press conference on Monday where he took no questions, Trump said the Far Right groups were “repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans”.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/do..._hp_ref=uk