DNA Proves Existence of a Designer

[LadyForCamus]

Do you mind me asking, what kinds of things?  Obviously, don’t feel obligated to go into further detail if you aren’t comfortable doing so.

I don't mind sharing, but I didn't want to go into too much detail and get ahead of anyone.

When I was a kid, I had to go to church every Sunday.  As far as churches go, it was very dry is how they shared and preached.  The people were friendly, but as a kid, it wasn't very appealing.  But I remember even at that time, I had a perception of God and that He was there in some form, but not with an identity that I could fully understand as a child.  As I got older, my dad came down with a very rare blood disorder. He was on blood transfusions, and wasn't given much time to live.  He went to a clinic and received an experimental treatment, but the prognosis wasn't good.  The doctors happened to be Christians and all they knew to try was to pray for him.  By some miracle, or whatever you choose to call it, he made a rough, but full recovery and is still alive at age 75, which is some thirty-plus years later and no trace of the disease.  I'll stop there for a minute so you can catch up, but that's not all of it.

Thanks for opening up to us!  I’m very happy that your dad was able to overcome the odds against him, and make a full recovery.  Recoveries and remissions against the odds are indeed rare, though not unheard of.  I have some follow-up questions for you pertaining to miraculous healings, but you said your story wasn’t finished yet, so I’ll let you proceed before I start butting in. 😁

[Deesse23]

The doctors happened to be Christians and all they knew to try was to pray for him.  By some miracle, or whatever you choose to call it, he made a rough, but full recovery and is still alive at age 75, which is some thirty-plus years later and no trace of the disease.  I'll stop there for a minute so you can catch up, but that's not all of it.

How do you know it was a miracle?
How do you know it was because of prayer?
How do you know it was your god listening to prayer?
What if you dad will have the disease again tomorrow?

[T0 Th3 M4X]

I don't mind sharing, but I didn't want to go into too much detail and get ahead of anyone.

When I was a kid, I had to go to church every Sunday.  As far as churches go, it was very dry is how they shared and preached.  The people were friendly, but as a kid, it wasn't very appealing.  But I remember even at that time, I had a perception of God and that He was there in some form, but not with an identity that I could fully understand as a child.  As I got older, my dad came down with a very rare blood disorder. He was on blood transfusions, and wasn't given much time to live.  He went to a clinic and received an experimental treatment, but the prognosis wasn't good.  The doctors happened to be Christians and all they knew to try was to pray for him.  By some miracle, or whatever you choose to call it, he made a rough, but full recovery and is still alive at age 75, which is some thirty-plus years later and no trace of the disease.  I'll stop there for a minute so you can catch up, but that's not all of it.

Thanks for opening up to us!  I’m very happy that your dad was able to overcome the odds against him, and make a full recovery.  Recoveries and remissions against the odds are indeed rare, though not unheard of.  I have some follow-up questions for you pertaining to miraculous healings, but you said your story wasn’t finished yet, so I’ll let you proceed before I start butting in. 😁

Feel free to ask questions. That's kinda why I stopped so I didn't get ahead of anything and having to try to explain multiple things at the same time.

As far as my dad healing, it goes a little beyond that.  My dad did not adhere to any belief is God.  Of course my mom was grieved because she did.  She married someone, their views weren't the same, and that same person she was genuinely concerned for was about to die.  I think kids can sometimes be the best observationists.  At that age and you experience something and you remember it without a lot of the extra biases, because we're still in a relative stage of innocence with how we see and determine life for us.  Just the impact alone the concern it was having on her was a lot, but to know I could very well lose my dad, and that he's far away in another state getting treatment was difficult.  So on that alone, it makes sense for me to ask not only "how?" but "why? "  I didn't adhere to any specific belief in God at that point, but it was part of the process.

I'll stop there so you can catch up or ask whatever questions you wanted to ask.

[GUBU]

*Cough* He doesn't need to use any paint at all...

Christianity stands up there along side the rest/best of them.

I can see it now.

Zeus, Yahwey and Odin standing on their cloud, looking down and comparing where their thrown lighting bolts landed (Well.. Odin and Thor).



At least Pantheism doesn't have a "Problem of Evil.' Since there are so many dieties to which to appoint the blame for when things go bad.

With monotheism... You've kind of got a problem when that time comes around.

Not at work.

Evil exists based on the devil's rebellion to God.  That is when the knowledge of good and evil must have been known to someone other than God.

Well considering that your god is supposed to be all powerful, Satan's rebellion can only be in existence because god wants wills it to be. If god wanted to he could destroy the rebellion without breaking a sweat.

So the problem of evil rebounds back on god.

[Peebothuhlu]

*Cough* He doesn't need to use any paint at all...

Christianity stands up there along side the rest/best of them.

I can see it now.

Zeus, Yahwey and Odin standing on their cloud, looking down and comparing where their thrown lighting bolts landed (Well.. Odin and Thor).



At least Pantheism doesn't have a "Problem of Evil.' Since there are so many dieties to which to appoint the blame for when things go bad.

With monotheism... You've kind of got a problem when that time comes around.

Evil exists based on the devil's rebellion to God.  That is when the knowledge of good and evil must have been known to someone other than God.

Riiiight.

But who created said devil, hmmmm?






 Bit of'a problem fer Monothists, in'it Guv?

Not at work.

[Gwaithmir]

Wrong.  Made up propaganda.

.....................?  Made up by whom?  The people who narrated daniel...., or the people who wrote daniel down?  What on earth are you babbling about?

It should be painfully evident by now that CDF47 will systematically reject any scholarly evidence placed before him which contradicts his dogmatic views. He is totally incapable of even considering that he might be wrong. 

[Anomalocaris]

.....................?  Made up by whom?  The people who narrated daniel...., or the people who wrote daniel down?  What on earth are you babbling about?

It should be painfully evident by now that CDF47 will systematically reject any scholarly evidence placed before him which contradicts his dogmatic views. He is totally incapable of even considering that he might be wrong. 

He is Christian.

[LadyForCamus]

Thanks for opening up to us!  I’m very happy that your dad was able to overcome the odds against him, and make a full recovery.  Recoveries and remissions against the odds are indeed rare, though not unheard of.  I have some follow-up questions for you pertaining to miraculous healings, but you said your story wasn’t finished yet, so I’ll let you proceed before I start butting in. 😁

Feel free to ask questions. That's kinda why I stopped so I didn't get ahead of anything and having to try to explain multiple things at the same time.

Okay, so I have two follow-up questions.  I’m assuming for my inquiry that you agree that rare medical phenomena occur that are unrelated to god.  If you don’t agree, please do correct me:

1. If rare medical phenomena occur that are unrelated to god (cancers going into remission, people coming out of comas against the odds, etc.), by what method can we distinguish between rare recoveries with natural causes, and miraculous recoveries caused by god?

2. If a Christian and a Muslim can both use miraculous healings as evidence for god, yet conclude mutually exclusive gods, what do you think that means about the reliability of that method?

As far as my dad healing, it goes a little beyond that.  My dad did not adhere to any belief is God.  Of course my mom was grieved because she did.  She married someone, their views weren't the same, and that same person she was genuinely concerned for was about to die.  I think kids can sometimes be the best observationists.  At that age and you experience something and you remember it without a lot of the extra biases, because we're still in a relative stage of innocence with how we see and determine life for us.  Just the impact alone the concern it was having on her was a lot, but to know I could very well lose my dad, and that he's far away in another state getting treatment was difficult.

That’s terrifying. Both my parents are still healthy as horses. I can’t imagine even having to think or worry about such a thing as a child.  I’m sorry you and your mom had to go through that. As a parent it makes me so sad to know children have to suffer those kinds of losses. It seems unfair somehow.  I’m glad your dad is okay though.  

On that alone, it makes sense for me to ask not only "how?" but "why? "  I didn't adhere to any specific belief in God at that point, but it was part of the process.

I agree with you that it seems intuitive, especially at a young age, to ask those questions under such circumstances, though I think it’s important to consider all possible answers. To me, one possible answer is, ‘it just happened’, though I understand why that’s not necessarily a satisfying one for many people.

[The Grand Nudger]

It should be painfully evident by now that CDF47 will systematically reject any scholarly evidence placed before him which contradicts his dogmatic views. He is totally incapable of even considering that he might be wrong. 

He is Christian.

It would be a convenient excuse..but the ignorance in this case is individual. We're not exactly getting their best people here on the boards.

[CDF47]

That is not true.

What, CDF, what isn't true?  That you had an inexplicable reaction to the mundane observations of seminary scholarship?  That this reaction was only made explicable by your later stating a misapprehension about what had been said?  That the narrator of the"prophetic" bits of daniel wasn't cheifly concerned with the maccabean revolt?  That the narrator made understandable mistakes with respect to a past he was unaware of and a future he would not see?  That some random jewish narrator getting something wrong wouldn't make your religion, which is not judaism, a myth?

What....?  Are you capable of articulating exactly the thing you object to, or would you like to run with "The thing no one said is not true!"................

Daniel is not a myth.  It's an historical account and written as such.  It is not written like a novel of a myth, it is literal and it happened.  There were no mistakes.

---

Evil exists based on the devil's rebellion to God.  That is when the knowledge of good and evil must have been known to someone other than God.

*Nods* Yeah, I get that about your system.

The problem you have is that:

1) Your diety is the biggest of all things. It's the creator of all things. It's the knower of all things.

2) This leads to the issue of your diety first knowing what it's going to do. Do said things anyway. Said created things then running off and doing the things they were created to do.

So... you diety created the evil AND lets it run around doing its evil things.

Is a problem, don't cha think?

Heck, pretty sure the Euthyphro's dilema sums up your problem. Or the more, modern, parahprasing at least.

At least with Odin... they can blame Loki being micheivieous and things going all ploin shaped from there. Same with most other pantheons. All the good diety's are runnning around trying to stop/thwart the evil dietys. Well... maybe the other way around, YMMV.

Not at work.

The Lord is totally holy, good, and just.  He hates evil.  Evil is what Satan did when he rebelled from God.

---

Evil exists based on the devil's rebellion to God.  That is when the knowledge of good and evil must have been known to someone other than God.

Well considering that your god is supposed to be all powerful, Satan's rebellion can only be in existence because god wants wills it to be.  If god wanted to he could destroy the rebellion without breaking a sweat.

So the problem of evil rebounds back on god.

He is going to end the rebellion without breaking a sweat.  Just on His time.  1000 days to the Lord is like 1 day.  It's nothing to Him.  It is only temporary.  Evil is running its course.

---

Evil exists based on the devil's rebellion to God.  That is when the knowledge of good and evil must have been known to someone other than God.

Riiiight.

But who created said devil, hmmmm?






 Bit of'a problem fer Monothists, in'it Guv?

Not at work.

The Lord is punishing sin.  It is only temporary for Him as evil runs its course.  The Lord created the devil but did not force him to rebel.  He rebelled on his own command.