Question about "faith"

[Ranjr]

Burning bushes and blinding lights aside, the fact remains it takes belief without evidence to believe god exists.  Doesn't matter if you call it faith, trust, or George.

[The Grand Nudger]

There are endless physiological expressions of faith John, and, not to put too fine a point on it, faith -is- a physiological expression.  It's a feeling.  The goal, at least for christians and other shamans, is to achieve an altered state and commune with the numinous.  Hence the performative language about a christian walk being an interpersonal relationship with the divine, and all that nonsense.

You can see how this exceeds any non-novel use of the terms trust or confidence, I trust.  Don't waste your time wondering how you can argue that this isn't a bad thing.  I'm only concerned with showing that and how a christian faith is not at all like an atheist trust, or confidence.  Not that it's bad, that it's different.  Not the same.  

There's more there, there, wouldn't you agree?  Or would you assert that your christian faith is equivalent to trusting that your name is john?  Having confidence that your name is John  Knowing that your name is John.  Believing that your name is John.  Is your experienced and purported god fact, some simple fact like that?  I think that there are alot of things in life that you have atheist trust and confidence in.  Most things.  You know them for mundane reasons which have nothing to do with any gods.  I don't think that this could describe your christian faith, but you tell me.

Or, if you prefer, you may have surmised that atheists have trust and confidence in a great many things, pretty much all of the same things you do, I'd wager...but that this hasn't produced any faith for them?

[John 6IX Breezy]

There are endless physiological expressions of faith John, and, not to put too fine a point on it, faith -is- a physiological expression.  It's a feeling. 

Okay, pick one of those endless physiological expressions and describe it.

[Sal]

Faith is felt.

Emotions are often accompanied by physiological responses and expressions. Fear may elicit a trembling response; anger is associated with the clenching of fists; happiness is associated with smiles.

If faith is felt, please describe its physiological correlates.

Feeling a sense of Happiness, without correlates.

if you want me to be more specific, a sense of warmth in the body and a tingling sensation in the stomach and torso. As well, when unexpected, a sense of surprise and feeling of awe and wonder.

[The Grand Nudger]

There are endless physiological expressions of faith John, and, not to put too fine a point on it, faith -is- a physiological expression.  It's a feeling. 

Okay, pick one of those endless physiological expressions and describe it.

No, I think that you should take the time to google this one yourself.  You'll find so many colorful images of people enjoying their altered states and talking to gods and receiving prophetic visions and experiencing grace.  I particularly enjoy it when they get to the laying of hands. The fullness of faith, which exceeds a trust or a confidence, produces a range of effects too wide to reference in a single post, or a single book.  

1000 words and all that.  Enjoy, I find it fascinating.

[John 6IX Breezy]

Feeling a sense of Happiness, without correlates.

if you want me to be more specific, a sense of warmth in the body and a tingling sensation in the stomach and torso. As well, when unexpected, a sense of surprise and feeling of awe and wonder.

Lol that's perfect. Sadness can be physiologically expressed through tears, for example, they are more or less interchangeable. The verse "Jesus wept" can be exchanged with "Jesus was sad" and the meaning remains the same (John 11:35).

By your logic, in the story of Peter sinking into the sea, the words "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?” can be exchanged with "O you of little sense of warmth in the body and tingling sensation in the stomach and torso, why did you doubt" (Matthew 14:31).

That is not a description of faith; it is perhaps a description of specific religious or spiritual experiences that happen to be accompanied by awe, happiness, etc.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sure, that's a pretty straightforward substitution. The meaning remains the same, unlike replacing faith with trust or confidence - because I still don't do to my wife what you do to christ.

Or, for that matter, what any of the other billions of people who believe in an endless litany of gods do to their own.

What you guys have going, is different than what I have going. Don't you think?

*I think you got the tingly feeling head on too. There are all kinds of feelings, doesn't have to be tingly or in the stomach. In can be the experience of a deep inviolable and unrivaled conviction.

Oh ye of shallow, fragile, and fractious conviction, why do you doubt?

[John 6IX Breezy]

The meaning remains the same, unlike replacing faith with trust or confidence.

"O you of little trust, why did you doubt" is a coherent sentence. Trust and doubt are natural antonyms of each other lol. You are trying really hard at this point.

[The Grand Nudger]

Except that faith contains things that trust doesn't. I trust my wife, but I don't do to my wife what you do to christ.

You must realize that. You have a wife, yes? Do you do to her what you do to christ?

Oh ye of little trust like you trust your wife, why did you doubt god..isn't coherent at all. Category error.

---

....must be 2020. I'm over here suggesting to a christian that his faith is something more than knowing whether the clock on the wall says three...and he's desperate for a way that it isn't.

Let your faith be something more than how well done a hot dog happens to be.

[Sal]

Feeling a sense of Happiness, without correlates.

if you want me to be more specific, a sense of warmth in the body and a tingling sensation in the stomach and torso. As well, when unexpected, a sense of surprise and feeling of awe and wonder.

Lol that's perfect. Sadness can be physiologically expressed through tears, for example, they are more or less interchangeable. The verse "Jesus wept" can be exchanged with "Jesus was sad" and the meaning remains the same (John 11:35).

By your logic, in the story of Peter sinking into the sea, the words "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?” can be exchanged with "O you of little sense of warmth in the body and tingling sensation in the stomach and torso, why did you doubt" (Matthew 14:31).

That is not a description of faith; it is perhaps a description of specific religious or spiritual experiences that happen to be accompanied by awe, happiness, etc.

Your problem of the physiological responses from the internal experience of faith is not mine. I remember well of how it felt when I attributed, what was later described to me as faith, was.

Your attempt to elevate 'faith' beyond some level of comprehension is exactly why faith is useless.

Do you even know what 'faith' is? I'm asking sincerely, since you seem to be having a non-cognitivist stance on it.