luka Wrote:If there are any Christians perusing the forum I would like to ask you a question. I've been an atheist for about 4 years now and only one question still troubles me about Jesus.
What does 4 years have to do with this, shouldn't everything be settled before you become an atheist.
luka Wrote:Why does it matter if he was tortured and crucified?
The torture showed the cruelty of mankind towards his fellow man and that a Savior was needed. Also there was the fulfillment of the OT prophecies, they (prophecies) were there to show the people that Jesus was the Messiah. A blood sacrifice had to be given for man's sin, Adam and Eve brought this into existence when they disobeyed God. God had to kill two animals to cloth them, thus blood was spilled for sin. No animal was perfect after the fall, so animals were continually being kill to cover man's sin. God sent Christ to live the perfect life and so there could be a once and for all sacrifice for all sin, God was tired of the way His people (the Jews) were doing things and it was time for the Messiah to come and bring a final defeat to sin through His own perfect sacrifice. Christ was sacrificed at the hands of man because the sacrifice was for man.
luka Wrote:If he was a godly being, with dominion over nature and the entire universe, surely he would have the ability to not feel pain. How would pain even be scaled to a supreme being?
Christ was a man, He came to live as a man and die as a man, the perfect man, this would include the pain, excluding the pain would have given people who reject Him something to complain about, but then I guess that some people will complain no matter what. When Christ left His heavenly home, He gave up all His power and glory, all the miracles Jesus did was powered by the Father, this is made apparent throughout the Gospels.
luka Wrote:Furthermore, I don't understand why an eternal, omniscient being would decide that he would need to put himself through a few days of pain in order to save his creation from their sin.
A few days, a few years, a few decades, 4000 years of pain God had put up with, each hour of every day of those 4000 years God went through the pain of sin, sin that was against Him from His creation. The pain of torture, and death was a representation of all the pain God went through in those 4000 years. It was the shedding of Jesus blood that brought the cleansing power to man, not the pain. The death and resurrection were the hope given to us for eternal life.
luka Wrote:Even if he did suffer horrendous pain, it still would prove nothing. It wouldn't prove he was honorable, trustworthy, or that any of his teachings were correct.
Who said the pain proved He was any of that, it was the total of what He did that proves that, you have to remember Jesus gave up everything He had in His heavenly place to become a human being. To give you a sample, He was questioned and plotted against by the very priest who ought to be worshiping Him and serving Him.
luka Wrote:While sacrificing yourself for something greater than yourself is honorable, it doesn't absolve others of their sins. It also doesn't count as a sacrificial act if Jesus rose from the dead and took his seat as the ruler of the universe again.
Christ was and is greater than the people He was sacrificed for, all of us, everyone. That's exactly why His sacrifice was able to atone for every sin ever committed.
Why, why doesn't it count, because you say so, who are you to judge what your God did for you. Please explain yourself? As I said before Christ's death and resurrection was to prove God could and would raise His faithful to eternal life, just as He did His Son. If the resurrection had not happened then how were we to believe God would raise us into eternal life when He did not raise His Son to eternal life. As the NT says, Jesus was the first raised into eternal life, the first of a great number.
luka Wrote:The crucifixion doesn't matter.
Yes it does, absolutely, your argument has failed on many levels, you have presented assumptions, assumptions of an unbeliever, what makes you think you can understand what Christ did, not one Christian has ever understood it until they gave their lives to Christ and then we learn daily what it has meant to each of us personally.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
