the slippery "F" word - my solution

[yuriythebest]

I dont see how this proves anything?

my point exactly - we can talk about how lighting and the creation of the universe requires supernatural causes all day, that won't make it true

We first of all we have to define what God is.

ok

I think its safe to say, that God is the creator

why what evidence do you have? I have no reason to think this

, not the one who causes it to rain, snow, hail etc.

tell that to the ancient greeks


I like this quote from wikipedia:

Drange emphasizes that any stance on "Does god exist?" is made with respect to a particular concept of what one claims to consider "god" to represent:

Since the word "God" has many different meanings, it is possible for the sentence "God exists" to express many different propositions. What we need to do is to focus on each proposition separately. … For each different sense of the term "God," there will be theists, atheists, and agnostics relative to that concept of God.[7]
As god means very different things to different people, when the word is spoken, an ignostic may seek to determine if something like a child's definition of a god is meant or if a theologian's is intended instead. A theistic child's concept generally has a simple and coherent meaning, based on an anthropomorphic conception of god.[10] Many philosophers and theologians have rejected this conception of god while affirming belief in another conception of god, including St. Augustine, Maimonides, St. Thomas Aquinas, Baruch Spinoza, and Søren Kierkegaard.

I agree- there are a myriad of variegated definitions of the term God

Jesus explains why he speaks in parables to confuse people so they will go to hell. Mark 4:11-12

I dont see how?

ok bad example, here are a few references to hell in the Bible:

2 Peter 2:4-5 says, "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment."

Mark 9:46 describes hell as: "Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched."

Matthew 8:12 says, "But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Isaiah 66:24 reads: "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

Daniel 12:2 describes the duration of hell: "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."

Luke 16:22-24 uses a parable to describe hell: "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'"

Luke 12:5 says, "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him."

Mark 9:47 says, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell."

Matthew 23:33 reads: "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?"

Revelation 19:20 talks about the fiery lake: "But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

so you are invoking the no true Scotsman fallacy? Not even "I would not be a christian" but a "theist"??? you are telling me that all those christians and muslims that believe in hell are not theists? but wait, that'd mean they're *drumroll** atheists!!! yess !!! we have a great boost in numbers!!!! thanks!!!!!!!

Some of the greatest theists have believed in hell. I wouldnt be a theist if I believed in an eternal hell, that is all I meant.

Excellent, then what you are saying is that means all of the christians who DO believe in an eternal hell, as well as all the other religions that do are all atheists. While fewer than those who believe in hell overall, still quite a few more for us.

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Quote:Hell doctrine. Period.

The idea hell is burning forever and ever is not Biblical or Jewish. I would not be a theist if I believed in hell.

Ahh I see what you did there. The OP's objection was to the hell doctrine - you on the other hand mentioned something unrelated - the length of time that hell burns, while the OP's objection was to hell in general. Nice.

I'd like to disagree with the OP as well - it's IRRELEVANT whether one LIKES anything in the bible or not, what matters is if the supernatural claims in it are true. I have seen no reason to think that.