Using the word "believe" wrong...

[maestroanth]

I just wonder if people feel as I do about this. Usually when I talk to people about religion/science, they throw the word believe around haphazardly. I.e. "I believe in x because of y" without giving sincere thought about the word "believe". And how this y-variable should have a great impact on whether you're using the word correctly.... (And usually with most morons out there, this y-variable consists of very subjective things either thrusted onto them by social groups, indoctrination, or my favorite pet peeve, because "they want to")

To me, this greatly undermines the integrity that this word should represent. Wanting to believe something is true because you'd like it to be true has no bearing on it actually being true! To sincerely believe in something, as how I feel this word should be explicitly used, the reasoning has to be completely independent of one's motivations and dependent on objective observations that many people can experience with the senses and derive the same conclusions if they're all rational....(ya, a big IF, lol)

Otherwise, when people say I believe in "Jesus" or Wicca or astrology or superstitions, etc., they should really consider replacing the word "believe" (because it's an incorrect usage of the word) with the phrase, "I would like for x to be true because I think Jesus is great". - Doesn't that make much better sense than saying like, " I believe in Jesus as truth because I think he's great"? I mean with the latter, that reason makes no fricken sense; while with the former, that statement doesn't require that reason to make sense.

I ranted this because to me, the word ought to imply a sense of reality to it. And if you cannot meet that demand for reality, then you need to find or invent a different word for what you're trying to express. A correct usage of this word could potentially eliminate much conflict in this world......

[robvalue]

It's especially apparent when people try and claim that belief is a choice. Such people don't know the difference between a belief and a professed belief.

It's often hard for me to tell whether someone really believes something, or just wants it to be true.

[maestroanth]

And oh man, it's a huge turnoff when I date a girl and we talk beliefs and she tells me "I like to believe in Wiccan because I like how their principles are...and it makes me happy. .Yarra...yadda....." and then she asks me what I "believe" in and when I respond, "the holographic principle", that usually stops the date dead right there.

(Also, I'd have to show her susskind lectures on black holes and how that theory naturally evolved from them to explain my reasons, but that's besides the point, lol)

[robvalue]

Haha, remember this from the matrix? I forget the exact words but:

Morphine: Do you believe in fate?

Neon: No.

Morphine: Why not?

Neon: Because I don't like the idea that our future is decided for us.

Morphine: I know exactly what you mean.

Logic Nazi: Appeal to consequences fallacy.

Morphine: Which character are you even meant to be?

[Minimalist]

Xristards throw most words around haphazardly.

Comes with wasting too much time on that stupid fucking bible.

[ignoramus]

[Gawdzilla]

Haha, remember this from the matrix? I forget the exact words but:

Morphine: Do you believe in fate?

Neon: No.

Morphine: Why not?

Neon: Because I don't like the idea that our future is decided for us.

Morphine: I know exactly what you mean.

Logic Nazi: Appeal to consequences fallacy.

Morphine: Which character are you even meant to be?

"Neo".

[robvalue]

It's an anagram of one, as in "how many good matrix films were there?"

[SteveII]

I just wonder if people feel as I do about this.  Usually when I talk to people about religion/science, they throw the word believe around haphazardly. I.e. "I believe in x because of y" without giving sincere thought about the word "believe". And how this y-variable should have a great impact on whether you're using the word correctly.... (And usually with most morons out there, this y-variable consists of very subjective things either thrusted onto them by social groups, indoctrination, or my favorite pet peeve, because "they want to")

To me, this greatly undermines the integrity that this word should represent. Wanting to believe something is true because you'd like it to be true has no bearing on it actually being true!   To sincerely believe in something, as how I feel this word should be explicitly used, the reasoning has to be completely independent of one's motivations and dependent on objective observations that many people can experience with the senses and derive the same conclusions if they're all rational....(ya,  a big IF, lol)

Otherwise, when people say I believe in "Jesus" or Wicca or astrology or superstitions, etc., they should really consider replacing the word "believe" (because it's an incorrect usage of the word) with the phrase, "I would like for x to be true because I think Jesus is great". - Doesn't that make much better sense than saying like, " I believe in Jesus as truth because I think he's great"? I mean with the latter, that reason makes no fricken sense; while with the former, that statement doesn't require that reason to make sense.

I ranted this because to me, the word ought to imply a sense of reality to it. And if you cannot meet that demand for reality, then you need to find or invent a different word for what you're trying to express. A correct usage of this word could potentially eliminate much conflict in this world......

You are confusing belief that a statement is true with its truth value. You can believe something is true when it is false. Conversely, you can believe something false that is true or even believe something is true for the wrong reasons (in which you would have a false belief). We already have a perfectly good word for what you are describing: knowledge-where belief overlaps truth.

Therefore the statement "I believe in Jesus" is 100% correct usage of the word 'believe' as is "I believe Jesus rose from the dead". You could then argue that the belief is a false belief, but it is a belief nevertheless.