(August 2, 2015 at 2:20 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: The Church teaches that all mankind was sentenced to hell to pay for Adam’s sin. This doctrine is both biblically and historically insupportable.That and his death/His inability to commune with God as He once had.
Biblical Viewpoint
It would be interesting to know why this should be when Adam was not sentenced to hell to pay for his own sin. In Genesis 3:17-19 we are told all the terrible things that will happen to Adam. Have you ever read this for yourself? If so, did you notice Adam’s punishment is confined to his physical existence?
Quote: In fact, Yahweh says “until you return to dust.” So we are talking here about physical death. The soul does not return to dust. The body does and according to the Bible, that is the end of Adam’s punishment. The word “until” means there’s a time limit. So from where did the Church come in and decide our punishment is to be eternal?And that's why their was a reformation movement separating the church from Dark age Catholosism. As you pointed out Original sin is a unsupported doctrine. Sin it self however and it wages is not. Christ tells us each man is responsible for our own sin, and because we have knowledge of Good and Evil per Adam we will be held accountable to it.
Quote:Is it not odd that in the 4,000 years between Adam and Paul, not one biblical writer says a word about anybody going to hell to pay for Adam’s sin?Not if you can identify the doctrine of 'original sin' as being unsupported by the bible.
You’d think that for something so cataclysmic that it affects the entire human race at least one biblical writer would find it worth mentioning. But none did. Hell was not a place where anybody went in the Old Testament. You might mention Psalm 16:10
Quote:For thou shall not leave my soul in hades/sheol. Not let your holy one see corruption.That because Sheol/Death is not being translated to Hell. The Spiritual Death Experience is being described, in common/physical relaitable terms.
There is no rationale for translating the Hebrew word “Lish·'O·Vl” as “Hell.” Lish·'O·Vl is the underworld or place of the dead. In classical Judaism, this was the permanent abode of the dead. Elijah and one other prophet notwithstanding, resurrection was not something experienced by the general populace.
Quote:Yes, you might say, but what about the rich man and Lazarus? We see Lazarus going to Abraham’s Bosom and the rich man went to hell. I challenge any Christian to show me one instance of Abraham’s Bosom in the Old Testament. Again, the Bible is silent about a concept large enough to deserve at least one mention. Just as Abraham’s Bosom is a construct of apocalyptic Judaism, so is the idea of humans going to hell when they die.It's a parable, the parable describes the finality/no second chances in Hell not Abraham or the level thirst one may have.
Quote:The Psalms were written during the Babylonian captivity. So we see a pagan influence on Jewish theology even before apocalyptic Judaism took hold in the second century B.C.E.Ah, no. A good portion of it was written under David's rule
Quote:At this point you might turn to the book of Revelation where we find people being cast into the lake of fire because their names were not written in the book of Life.Or you can turn to what Christ acutally said about what happens to us in said lake first and then turn to revelation to show that it will happen.
Quote: You are not supposed to ask yourself why their names were not written there.Sure you are that's what the 4 books of the Gospel is about. Not to mention more specifically the first 3 chapters of Revelation. Jesus is speaking to the 7 churches about who is written in the lamb's book and who is not and WHY!!!
Quote: The Bible does not say and where the Bible is silent, the Church feels free to add its own interpretation.
![ROFLOL ROFLOL](https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/roflol.gif)
Quote:They tell us it’s because they were unbelievers. However, since nowhere else in the Bible do we see anyone going to hell for what they did or did not believe, this interpretation lacks credibility.In the first 3 chapters of revelation BELIEVERS Are going to go to Hell if they do not straighten up, and the rest of Revelation shows that they did not. So where do you think unbelievers/Those who curse the name of God will go?
Quote: The only people the Bible definitely says will have their names taken out of the book of Life are those who take things out of that book and those who add things to that book will have the plaques of that book added to them. So the vast majority of Christian leaders are already in trouble.Uh, no. Read Chapter 3 Of the six churches only one will not have their names removed from the lambs book.
Quote:Historical ViewpointSo.. Your not aware of what happened in the middle east for them right after WWII?
I’ve mentioned apocalyptic Judaism several times. Jesus was an apocalyptic Jew. After the Babylonian destruction and captivity, Jews began to move away from the teachings of the prophets. The prophets taught that suffering was punishment for not keeping God’s covenant. They taught that if the people turned back to God he would heal them and bless them. Yet ever the centuries it was becoming clear that this was not happening.
Quote:Apocalyptic Judaism was an alternative to the teachings of the prophets. It taught that God had an enemy and it was this enemy who caused Yahweh’s people to suffer when they tried to follow God. According to the prophets, the “soul that sinneth it shall die.” Yet the people saw over and over that the wicked and sinners lived long lives. They did not see the wicked being punished in this life, so apocalyptic Judaism offered an after-life during which justice and retribution would be exacted. Thus, Satan emerges as the arch enemy of God and Hell becomes the destiny of the wicked.
![ROFLOL ROFLOL](https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/roflol.gif)
Quote:The Church needs hell. Fear is a very strong emotion. It can make people accept what they otherwise would reject. It can make people believe in things that they know are not true. It will take time to free yourself from fears that have lodged in your mind for years and decades. It will be even more difficult if you are surrounded by people who reinforce that fear. As you can see from the above there is no basis for this fear. The last question is, do you think you will find favor with God by believing things you know are not true?uh, no.
Hell, is simply the alternative to spending an eternity with God. Side A if you want to spend eternity with God and what He has created, follow the plan of salvation/gospel. if no the Hell. that simple. No fear. A or B.