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(August 3, 2015 at 7:33 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: 2 Thess. is about knowledge and obedience.
Agreed, knowledge about what the gospel is [established in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4] and obedience to that gospel.
(August 3, 2015 at 7:33 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: What does it mean to obey the gospel of Christ? this is open for interpretation so of course you will interpret it in a way that supports your narrative. Because it falls short of saying believing that Jesus is god as the Church teaches it serves only as something you can interpret to support your claims, not as proof of those claims.
Anyone who denies the life, death, burial, and/or resurrection of Christ is not obeying the gospel.
(August 3, 2015 at 7:33 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: You still have not shown that the idea of hell is anything but an construct of apocalyptic Judaism. Superimposing your interpretation of New Testament scriptures onto Old Testament scriptures where they don't exist is not going to do it.
See below.
(August 4, 2015 at 8:25 am)Cato Wrote:
(August 3, 2015 at 3:51 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: The question here isn't about the difference between Christianity at it's beginning and Christianity today, but rather a question about the Old and New Testament's reference, or lack there of, to hell. The New Testament scriptures [original manuscripts] have not changed from then to now. Hell has always been a part of the revelation of the New Testament.
Another reason why it's pure fabrication. What Christians would have us believe is that God sat around for millenia not uttering a single word about original sin or the consequential eternal damnation. Then some dude shows up pulling the perceived danger out of his ass while prescribing a cure. A classic case of charlatanism.
So you say.
Sheol is the Hebrew word for the place of the dead. It can mean several things based on context: a grave or pit or the abode of the dead below the earth. Sheol is translated “grave” 31 times and is translated as “hell” 31 times in the Old Testament. Following is a sampling of verses that mention hell or describe the afterlife.
◾“For a fire is kindled in My anger, and shall burn to the lowest hell; it shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.” (Deut. 32:22)
◾“The dead tremble, those under the waters and those inhabiting them. Sheol is naked before Him, and Destruction has no covering.” (Job 26:5,6)
◾“The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.” (Psa. 9:17)
◾“Your hand will find all Your enemies; Your right hand will find those who hate You. You shall make them as a fiery oven in the time of Your anger; the LORD shall swallow them up in His wrath, and the fire shall devour them.” (Psa. 21:8,9)
◾“If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.” (Psa. 139:8)
◾“The way of life winds upward for the wise, that he may turn away from hell below.” (Prov. 15:24)
◾“Hell and Destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.” (Prov. 27:20)
◾“The strong shall be as tinder, and the work of it as a spark; both will burn together, and no one shall quench them.” (Isa. 1:31)
◾“Therefore Sheol has enlarged itself and opened its mouth beyond measure; their glory and their multitude and their pomp, and he who is jubilant, shall descend into it.” (Isa. 5:14)
◾“Hell from beneath is excited about you, to meet you at your coming; it stirs up the dead for you, all the chief ones of the earth; it has raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.” (Isa. 14:9)
◾“You shall conceive chaff, you shall bring forth stubble; your breath, as fire, shall devour you. And the people shall be like the burnings of lime; like thorns cut up they shall be burned in the fire.” (Isa. 33:11,12)
◾“And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt.” (Dan. 12:2)
◾“Though they dig into hell, from there My hand shall take them; though they climb up to heaven, from there I will bring them down.” (Amos 9:2)
While the Sadducees of the New Testament did not believe in the afterlife, the Pharisees believed in both heaven and hell and the resurrection of the dead (see Isa. 26:19).
Your hermeneutic is incorrect. Some things [though hell not being one of them] were not revealed to us until later times (Hebrews 1:1-2/Ephesians 1:9/Romans 16:25/Ephesians 3:6/etc.).
If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists... and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible... would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?
