RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
September 7, 2015 at 7:16 pm
(This post was last modified: September 7, 2015 at 7:20 pm by TheRocketSurgeon.)
(September 7, 2015 at 6:57 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(September 7, 2015 at 5:39 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: You must be joking. First of all, we are badgered constantly for our non-belief, particularly from members of our former (since many of us are ex-Christians) religious groups, including family, and pressured into at least giving the appearance of conformity. To a great many of us, that "appearance of conformity" is the same as our identities being extinguished, however briefly, and we don't see refusing to participate in the rituals of our religious friends/relatives/acquaintances as "badgering".
This is a strawman argument, Rocket.
I never said you weren't badgered constantly, and I never said refusing to participate in someone's religion constitutes as badgering.
It's not a strawman argument. Your statement implied that we should not "badger" Christians because we would not appreciate being badgered. I returned with the reply that we are badgered. Constantly. And yet we are the ones who are deemed "angry" if we respond in kind.
It was on that basis that I then pointed out that the reason we're so often badgered is because others believe that if we do not conform, we are in need of pressure to do so. All "out of love", of course. Well, most of it out of love. Some is just plain bigotry.
The "you must be joking" was in reference to your statement:
Quote: "Btw, you're the first person I've ever talked to who objects to the "treat others the way you want them to treat you" rule lol. Interesting perspective."
...to which I replied with the Sagan analysis in Chapter 16 of Billions and Billions, which includes the problem of how we are treated and expected to treat others in return, with regards to "badgering".
Edit to Add: Sagan does not discuss the badgering part. He discusses "tit for tat", which is somewhat the model in which we try to be nice to theists, then return their badgering with bager-counterfire. Thus it is "in regards to badgering" that Sagan explains the models of moral behavior.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.