How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard

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How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard

pocaracas Offline

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#135

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard

September 9, 2015 at 5:18 am

(September 9, 2015 at 2:37 am)Ronkonkoma Wrote:
(September 7, 2015 at 12:43 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: That's silly. Time started when the first particle was formed.

Either way it had a beginning. And things that have a beginning are usually begotten by a cause.

The original question was, why does God not need a cause? Because He had no beginning.

Not all existence is material. Immaterial things like ideas and information, and even mathematics. These are all immaterial things that have an effect on us, so we know they exist. Logically God could act if He was eternally simple. And that is what all the great theologians have taught that God is eternally simple (i.e. Not made up of any parts/indivisible, and eternal - above space and time.)

In the meantime, they have all been presupposing that a god exists in the first place!
Do ideas, information, mathematics exist, if no human, or conscious being, is around to formulate them? Can M$ Windows exist without a computer?

I wouldn't interpret the current "big bang theory" as placing a beginning in time and space, but rather as a limit to our ability to perceive beyond... In other words, we don't know if there was a before, nor does it seem to be knowable that there was a before.

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Messages In This Thread

How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 22, 2015 at 8:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Minimalist - July 22, 2015 at 8:23 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 22, 2015 at 8:28 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Minimalist - July 22, 2015 at 10:41 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Anomalocaris - August 2, 2015 at 11:57 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - July 22, 2015 at 9:02 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Magilla - July 22, 2015 at 10:19 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - July 23, 2015 at 2:58 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 23, 2015 at 11:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - July 23, 2015 at 3:00 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by The Valkyrie - July 22, 2015 at 9:08 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 22, 2015 at 9:39 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by ignoramus - July 22, 2015 at 9:47 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 5:37 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Iroscato - July 23, 2015 at 5:41 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Simon Moon - July 23, 2015 at 9:05 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 19, 2015 at 3:12 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 19, 2015 at 4:24 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 19, 2015 at 9:09 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 19, 2015 at 9:16 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 19, 2015 at 9:50 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - September 20, 2015 at 2:40 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 6:27 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by ignoramus - July 23, 2015 at 5:40 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Tonus - July 23, 2015 at 7:10 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - July 23, 2015 at 7:14 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 7:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 10:23 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Tonus - July 23, 2015 at 11:56 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:04 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Tonus - July 23, 2015 at 1:03 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 1:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Tonus - July 23, 2015 at 1:27 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Angrboda - July 26, 2015 at 8:17 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 9:50 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Angrboda - August 3, 2015 at 9:43 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 5, 2015 at 10:25 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 23, 2015 at 11:34 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 11:36 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - July 23, 2015 at 11:42 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 11:43 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:02 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:05 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:19 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:21 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:23 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Grandizer - September 7, 2015 at 4:21 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 6:59 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:25 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:27 pm

How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by KUSA - July 23, 2015 at 12:27 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:29 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:33 pm

How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by KUSA - July 23, 2015 at 12:30 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:36 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - July 23, 2015 at 12:34 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:40 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - July 23, 2015 at 12:44 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:52 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 23, 2015 at 1:23 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JuliaL - July 23, 2015 at 1:24 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:37 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Iroscato - July 23, 2015 at 12:49 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:50 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 24, 2015 at 1:07 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Brian37 - July 23, 2015 at 1:26 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JuliaL - July 23, 2015 at 1:36 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 1:30 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JuliaL - July 23, 2015 at 1:42 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 23, 2015 at 1:33 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 1:35 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 23, 2015 at 1:45 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 24, 2015 at 10:44 am

How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by KUSA - July 23, 2015 at 2:27 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 2:41 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - July 23, 2015 at 3:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 7:29 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - July 23, 2015 at 8:57 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 2:42 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Brian37 - July 23, 2015 at 3:00 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 24, 2015 at 4:59 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Brian37 - July 25, 2015 at 1:02 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 1:05 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 25, 2015 at 8:30 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by snowtracks - July 26, 2015 at 7:45 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 27, 2015 at 1:47 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Anomalocaris - August 2, 2015 at 11:59 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by LostLocke - July 27, 2015 at 8:42 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - July 27, 2015 at 12:46 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 27, 2015 at 8:46 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Brian37 - July 28, 2015 at 3:38 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by snowtracks - August 2, 2015 at 11:48 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 8:35 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 3, 2015 at 8:43 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 9:39 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 3, 2015 at 9:41 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 10:38 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 3, 2015 at 10:43 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - August 3, 2015 at 10:49 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 3, 2015 at 12:53 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 1:46 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 3, 2015 at 7:57 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 8:07 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 3, 2015 at 9:18 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - August 3, 2015 at 10:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 10:33 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Aristocatt - August 3, 2015 at 10:35 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Aristocatt - August 3, 2015 at 8:55 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 4, 2015 at 1:02 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - August 4, 2015 at 1:26 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 6, 2015 at 2:39 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Pizza - August 6, 2015 at 3:15 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 6, 2015 at 2:25 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 6, 2015 at 2:53 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - August 6, 2015 at 2:59 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 6, 2015 at 4:36 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 7:21 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 21, 2015 at 8:35 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 9:19 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 6, 2015 at 6:03 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - August 6, 2015 at 10:19 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 8, 2015 at 1:32 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 6, 2015 at 6:08 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - August 6, 2015 at 2:29 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 6, 2015 at 3:07 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 7, 2015 at 12:30 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - August 7, 2015 at 1:23 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 7, 2015 at 4:26 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Pizza - August 7, 2015 at 1:25 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 7, 2015 at 2:48 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - August 7, 2015 at 3:36 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by pocaracas - August 7, 2015 at 5:49 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 7, 2015 at 12:43 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 7, 2015 at 1:05 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Lucanus - August 7, 2015 at 1:19 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - August 7, 2015 at 1:41 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by LastPoet - August 7, 2015 at 2:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by snowtracks - September 7, 2015 at 3:12 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 7, 2015 at 4:41 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Grandizer - September 7, 2015 at 4:44 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 7, 2015 at 4:48 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Grandizer - September 7, 2015 at 5:01 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 7, 2015 at 12:43 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Grandizer - September 8, 2015 at 3:37 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 9, 2015 at 2:37 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by pocaracas - September 9, 2015 at 5:18 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 9, 2015 at 5:40 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 9, 2015 at 5:33 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 10, 2015 at 3:25 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 10, 2015 at 5:19 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 10, 2015 at 2:52 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 10, 2015 at 3:32 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 10, 2015 at 4:38 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by pocaracas - September 10, 2015 at 5:45 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 10, 2015 at 1:33 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by LastPoet - September 10, 2015 at 5:51 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 10, 2015 at 7:02 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - September 10, 2015 at 7:19 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 10, 2015 at 7:22 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 10, 2015 at 5:26 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 12, 2015 at 1:37 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 13, 2015 at 3:08 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 13, 2015 at 6:16 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 14, 2015 at 1:28 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by strawberryBacteria - September 13, 2015 at 7:13 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 13, 2015 at 2:33 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 13, 2015 at 11:08 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by strawberryBacteria - September 14, 2015 at 6:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 14, 2015 at 11:29 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - September 14, 2015 at 7:47 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Rhondazvous - September 19, 2015 at 5:12 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 14, 2015 at 2:53 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 14, 2015 at 5:18 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 19, 2015 at 2:55 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 19, 2015 at 4:59 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 21, 2015 at 1:55 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Rhondazvous - September 19, 2015 at 4:21 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Rational AKD - September 19, 2015 at 4:43 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 20, 2015 at 8:57 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - September 20, 2015 at 11:22 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 20, 2015 at 1:35 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Angrboda - September 20, 2015 at 12:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 20, 2015 at 1:55 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Angrboda - September 20, 2015 at 6:17 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 20, 2015 at 12:55 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 20, 2015 at 12:56 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 20, 2015 at 1:03 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 20, 2015 at 1:29 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 20, 2015 at 1:55 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 6:51 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 20, 2015 at 2:44 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - September 20, 2015 at 2:52 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 20, 2015 at 9:53 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2015 at 11:42 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - September 20, 2015 at 12:33 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2015 at 1:41 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 3:58 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 6:17 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 6:25 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 6:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 6:38 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 6:46 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 9:22 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 10:48 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 10:54 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 10:59 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by The Grand Nudger - September 21, 2015 at 11:25 am

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